The Brexit Arms (temporary till the licensee get here)

[BoredofBrexit]

Noise enforcement squad!
Where's the landlady? Surfer?
We've been advised of a a lock in and it's reported that the jukebox has been stuck playing Pulp - Common People - all night.

I'm a loony leftie Lexiteer who still suspects JC may himself have voted Leave. His electability or otherwise doesn't really bother me as he has already done so much to re-frame the terms of the debate with his supposedly ineffective opposition and all the friendly fire from the PLP.

I think he would need to jettison Kezia and form a strategic alliance with the SNP to pose any sort of threat in a GE.

I struggle with his behaviour re IRA and known terrorists I think he's probably better as a professional objector than leader of the country. I did believe he was a change for better in our political class but the train fiasco deeply disappointed me and I think even if he didn't vote leave as long term anti EU he should have had more courage in his convictions. I don't really like or feel able to support any of our politicians or parties.

Won't Clegg get all the NuLips? That would leave Old Labour and Scottish Labour with Corbyn.

Current Scottish Labour is a very different animal from old Scottish Labour. Lots of the MPs who lost their seats retired and many of the newer intake on the Left crossed to the SNP. Kezia and Ian Murray were in the Owen Smith ranks and don't seem to have moved any.

Clegg might get some of the NuLips but that depends on their urge to Remoan versus how they feel about the coalition years? I think atm he is more going after the Tory Remoan as it is them he lost at the last election. I think the gap between them and NuLip may be too wide for him to straddle. Don't see him having any impact in the Brexit voting Labour seats in the North and those are the ones the PLP has to focus on to win.

How about, first para interesting if a bit of a shame I feel but I'm being diplomatic here as I am out of touch with Scottish politics - I dislike the SNP despite being pro independence but realise my views are those of an outsider.
Re Clegg I just can't see how anyone that thought their vote mattered would vote for him. Oops. Diplomacy fail.

an openly islamophobic administration which is showing itself to be hostile to Muslims is the biggest ally they could hope for

You are wrong, Kaija. Too many of the Muslim arrivals into USA and Europe are already hostile towards the West, pre-Trump. You see it on their faces and in their level of criminality: sexual groping of women, rapes of girls and boys, thieving. Young muslim women in the UK, born here, are wearing hijab, when their own mothers never did to convey 'fuck you' to the rest of us.

In my local park I see young lads of 14 sitting on the bench with a laptop looking at vids of radical and violent Islam and cheering.

Unemployment amongst immigrants is almost 80% greater than non immigrants but still the RL tell us they are net contributors.

These are prison stats for France:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802560.html

'This prison is majority Muslim -- as is virtually every house of incarceration in France. About 60 to 70 percent of all inmates in the country's prison system are Muslim, according to Muslim leaders, sociologists and researchers, though Muslims make up only about 12 percent of the country's population.'

So, No, I don't for one minute believe that having an outspoken President such as Trump is going to push young people into the arms of IS. They've got there all by themselves by talking themselves into how awful everyone is to the muslims. No, they are awful to each other.

His campaigning was theatrical deliberately, and when he said "there are a lot of bad hombres in our country" it is actually true. Mexican gangs sex traffick Mexican girls into California to work as prostitutes, having promised them work as chambermaids, waitresses, etc. What's wrong with stating a fact?

I only used frothy because it keeps getting used about remainers, actually. Although it works both ways: froth as in rabid foam, and froth as in meaningless nothingness in place of reality.

Concomitant really doesn't make sense in the sentence below btw. But hey, if you feel that it does, in this post-fact world, go for it.

That is funny Bored as I like the SNP but am anti-independence. I could just about reconcile myself to it as long as we are out of the EU. I think whatever the settlement Scotland and England will only ever be nominally independent of each other.

I was responding to a post about how children react to Trump

CHILDREN should NOT be responding to Trump. If primary school kids are, then they are being inculcated by their parents and teachers.

I heard that one of my acquaintances young son was going around saying that 'that bad man is going put up a wall and stop people getting food'. And what is really appalling is that the right-on teachers hear this but don't correct the boy. That is inculcation and should not be allowed in our schools.

It's inaccurate and must be coming from home.

What do other leavers think of him?

I have no personal feelings about Corbyn, but he is a communist and that is the baseline you have to remember when listening to him. Miliband is communist, and to a large degree so is Gordon Brown. I think what keeps Brown on the straight & narrow is his early upbrining, his father being a minister in the Church of Scotland. But there must be considerable influence from his wife who was in partnership with the (Marxist) Hobsbawn woman and together founded a political PR firm serving the Left.

Re the SNP - I know quite a few folk who like that the SNP 'stand up to WM' and make the voice of Scots heard, so voted SNP for that reason, but are anti-independence.

Re Jeremy Corbyn, I do now think he's a big part of the reshaping of politics in this country.

NuLips would be a good addition to politics - they could be all trendily liberal, and Labour could go back to what it's supposed to be (i.e. striving to make things better for the ordinary working (wo)man & the disadvantaged).

If the main parties sorted their shit out and stopped bemoaning the 'failure of getting the message out there' and instead actually gave some substance & action to 'the message' then the country would be a happier place.

I'm sick of empty words & virtue signalling.

Wrt kids walking around talking about Trump building walls & starting WW3 etc - I remember reading on MN the day after the EU Ref that teachers were 'crying in the playground' - and posters' primary aged kids were having 'panic attacks' about Brexit.

Here Here Mango!

(I was cheersing your 15.32 post)
Yes I remember that too.
Worlds still turning.

Teachers crying over Brexit.
God help us.

Howabout. How funny!
I'd like Scotland to be independent (and out of the eu of course) but I'd like them not to have had to fall out with rUK in the process.
I think, with a level playing field, Scotland have a good chance of economic success.
A federal arrangement, with us all playing to our own strengths and all sharing in each other's weaknesses. I dream big!

From the Telegraph (part article)

Now liberals know how the Kippers used to feel

One other book helps to explain politics in 2016. As it happens, it was published in 2014. Co-written by two academics, Robert Ford and Matthew Goodwin, it’s Revolt on the Right, a history of Ukip. As the authors explain, when Ukip was formed in the early 1990s, it wasn’t meant to be an uprising of the common man: it was meant to be a pressure group persuading the Conservative party to turn fully eurosceptic. Its target voters were well-off southern Tories.

But 10 or so years ago, almost by accident, Ukip discovered that it could appeal to a completely different type of voter. In the later years of Tony Blair, and then the early years of David Cameron, many among the white working class in northern England, the East and the Midlands felt that they’d been abandoned by the mainstream parties. New Labour and the Tories were both chasing the votes of the university-educated, socially liberal, metropolitan middle class. For working-class voters who’d supported Old Labour or Mrs Thatcher, there seemed to be no one left to vote for.

Yet today, everything’s been turned on its head – because all of a sudden, it’s the university-educated, socially liberal, metropolitan middle class who feel scorned and ignored. They’ve been abandoned by the Tories (who have marched off to the Right, while pronouncing themselves champions of the working class) and abandoned by Labour (who have marched off to the Left, while pronouncing themselves champions of the working class). All the poor old social liberals have got left is a futile protest vote for the Lib Dems. There’s a thought: the Lib Dems are basically now a metropolitan Ukip. A small but noisy protest movement obsessed with the EU.

After all these years, social liberals are getting just a little taste of how the white working class used to feel.

Great article.
Thanks for linking.

Like your précis Bored!!

Agree, agree, agree!

LibDems are neither fish nor fowl. I used to work with Ed Davey who was MP for Kingston & Surbiton who was promoted quickly within the party because of a dearth of talen. Latterly was Energy Secretary in the coalition govt, now set up his own energy consulting firm. He's also the guy who got EDF the Hinkley Point project.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3481879/Minister-struck-worst-deal-EDF-build-Hinkley-Point-works-lobbying-firm-counts-French-energy-company-one-clients.html

correction worked with him BEFORE he left to become MP.

Cut and paste from another Telegraph article'

"I quite often meet senior judges, that they suffer more from group-think than of old. “The independence of the judiciary” did not only mean independence from government. It also meant independence from one another. Under the English system, judges always arrived at their own, individual legal opinions. The collective “view of the judiciary” was frowned on.

Nowadays, however, the judges act more like a trade union in wigs, aggrandising their power. Their present generation overwhelmingly supports Britain’s EU membership and wants the interesting work it brings. After the referendum, we naturally wish to scrutinise their connections and discover their views.

For what it is worth, I would say that at least Lords Neuberger, Mance and Kerr and Lady Hale are on the side which seems to me too disrespectful of parliamentary sovereignty."

Does anyone else think that if they ran a second referendum that Leave would win by an even bigger 'slender' margin, as loads of moderate people have been pissed off by the attempts to block or derail the path to exiting the EU?

Yes I do think leave would win by an even bigger margin, the remainers I know are sick of the elite trying to block Brexit, they're totally disgusted actually.

Right, I promise, last link tonight. By Janet Daley who gets me run out of town if I post her articles on the other thread.
It's called The Left is in its pulpit again. Britain shouldn't listen to its sanctimony.

And at the end of it was a click poll:
Who is most obnoxious: Trump or the Left?
Results Trump 8% The Left 92%
(I promise I only clicked once)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/19/the-left-is-in-its-pulpit-again-britain-shouldnt-listen-to-its-p/