The Brexit Arms (temporary till the licensee get here)

[BoredofBrexit]

Noise enforcement squad!
Where's the landlady? Surfer?
We've been advised of a a lock in and it's reported that the jukebox has been stuck playing Pulp - Common People - all night.

So how does making ok to voice such hatred and providing it with a outlet channel help?

As with Brexit, Remain wasn't the ideal option but it was the least worst.

This is the same.

Allowing those views to become socially acceptable is unbelievably dangerous if you have no way of controlling it and no idea what it might lead to.

Who wants to make those views 'socially acceptable'?

I don't.

But by not allowing those views to be heard in the first place, how do we then challenge them?

Did you watch the same video as I did?

He is saying that people don't actually mean what they're saying, only that they say it to provoke a reaction.

How do you begin to challenge that?

You challenge it, obviously, but not by shouting/shutting them down with 'ist' type and 'triggered' reactions.

The specific people he was referring to was teenagers trolling for reaction - something teenagers have done for years.
The difference today is that they have a global audience thanks to the internet & social media.

Comedians, teenagers, celebrities etc etc - people the world over do things/say things to be deliberately provocative & to shock.

Bear, fwiw I'm not deliberately trying to target you or argue with you on a personal level - I'm just trying to debate a point is all.

I don't want to come across in a personal way against you at all, that's truly not my intention.

Mango in what way is saying "teenagers and comedians just say stuff for reaction" challenging the stuff they say?

He's a Libertarian.

That's it really.

But then you go back to the point I've been making for more than 4 months; you can only challenge something if people articulate what they actually mean/ want.

If they only actually say things they don't mean or talk in riddles of rhetoric and platitudes then there is no basis for discussion.

Your attempt of using that video to prove your point has only served to highlight why your thought process is so dangerous.

You want to unleash the genie but have no clue what do do once he's out.

Don't worry mango I don't take it personally. People just chat to whoever is responding at the time but are referring generally to the generic you/ we

Your attempt of using that video to prove your point has only served to highlight why your thought process is so dangerous.

'My thought process is dangerous' - because I agreed with his summary of why people shouldn't be shocked at how/why Trump was elected......?!

Ok then.

See, now with that x post it looks like I'm being a proper twat to you Bear!

Nobody is actually stopping Milo Yiannopolous from expressing his views. He was banned from Twitter for harassment, not for his views.

When people rail at "PC gone mad" and say that "we can't say what we think anymore" it's rare that anyone is actually preventing them from saying what they want. What they mean is "we can't say what we think and for it be treated as socially acceptable".

Slowly but surely the Overton window is moving so that views which were once considered beyond the pale in a civilised society are now considered to be on the margins of respectable opinion, and if things keep progressing as they are before long they will become part of mainstream opinion. And if you're a member of an unfavoured minority group then no amount of commitment to abstract principles like freedom of speech will help you then.

When people rail at "PC gone mad" and say that "we can't say what we think anymore" it's rare that anyone is actually preventing them from saying what they want. What they mean is "we can't say what we think and for it be treated as socially acceptable".

Agree.

But he's saying Trump should be elected to prove he can't deliver what he promised- did you miss that part?

He says he wants it to destroy the Republicans so they never get elected again.

You voting Leave is dangerous if you agree with that thought process because you're saying it was only to prove a point.

Trouble is that point has no direction or target and, crucially, unlike the US presidency, can't be reversed in 4 years.

My house is a tip because of you lot.

Wine glass: Wine glass: Wine glass:

Mango, the Regressive Left do not want to debate. They want to impose.

The political establishment as it is at the moment is not longer fit for purpose (here & USA).

The traditional ways of 'doing politics' are undergoing massive shocks & seachange - I think this is a good thing.

Personally, I voted for Brexit because I wanted to leave the EU (various reasons) - political change & a shock to the political classes was just a happy by-product as far as I was concerned, NOT my reason for voting Leave.

Me tonight:

The reality is that when people are disgruntled and pissed off they want to chuck out the status quo and throw in their lot with whoever seems to be giving the establishment the biggest kicking. That's regardless of the whys and wherefores of how they ended up being disgruntled, or what either side is offering.

No amount of debating and hearing people out will change that. The reality is we just have to ride the wave of public opinion and hope that too much damage hasn't been done by the time we come out the other side.

Lol mango! Don't worry- like I said, I genuinely don't see these posts as personal

Bear!

'I'm utterly terrfied, hoffied and astounded that you agree with a man who thinks everyone has the right to say exactly what the think'

Bear you're very huff and blustery!

Have just watched the video and not come across this Milo before. Quite a character isn't he. If there is to be a discussion on his position and views (as opposed writing him off and shutting debate down) I'd be interested to participate.

He reminds me of Katie Hopkins.

Do you think if you shout enough you will shame me, suppress me, 'reform' me?

You won't.

You will drive me underground.

But my views will still stand and I will still assert my democratic right to freedom of speech and thought and will.

As will you.

And so the chasm of divide will endure and so we find we are where we are.

The problem is this 'chunking' all leave voters and branding us extremists. That's what's dangerous, the polarising. There should be so much middle ground but in my opinion the left will not accept that.