To think this could mean the end of brexit?

[jdoe8]

Now MPs will be able to block it. Could this be the end of this ridiculous brexit? MPs can not vote for something that they think will not be in peoples interest and its very clear the people that voted to brexit would be the ones worse off.

JO'B is doing a fab job on LBC today and most brexiters seem to be happy that it might not go ahead as they were fooled by lies!

Bitofacow Thank you. I know it's pointless trying to explain it but I just wanted to write it down somewhere. I spent too long engaging with people on twitter last week about the nature of parliamentary sovereignty and representative democracy and got so much abuse I almost cried.
Everyone spouting off about 'having a mandate' and the 'will of the people' makes me despair, but as you say, if you imply you have any knowledge or, god forbid, are an 'expert' you are rapidly abused.

If all MPs vote according to their constituency's preference, the only way that Brexit would be blocked would be if a majority of constituencies would vote to remain.

What exactly is so scary about MPs representing the wishes of majority remain constituencies?

but what would we, the People, actually do? We have no power, we don't even have pitchforks!, not many anyway

There would be blood. Of this I am certain, people pushed to the bloody brink before, have no doubt, it would be like nothing this country has ever seen. There would be anarchy. For days and weeks.

merrymouse but that's my point - whole constituencies didn't vote - just a small proportion of eligible voters did. Unless the absolute number of constituency voters who voted to leave is greater than 50% of the total population of that constitutiency then an MP who believes it's the right decision to remain could arguably and perfectly reasonably vote that way.

Do you believe that Leave majority area MPs should continue to block all future EU initiatives if the Referendum had resulted in a Remain outcome in order to represent their constituencies or should they accept that UK has voted to remain and so accept that fact and look how best to protect their constituents' interest subject to the fact that Remain had won?

And in your inverse scenario, where a majority of constituencies had voted to Remain, how would a minority of Leave constituency MPs block things? Would I support those MPs objecting and voting against the majority if they felt this would serve their constituents best? Absolutely. Would I expect them to sit in obsequious silence because Will of The People? No.

Jaws5 Yes I do use other sources but I happened to read it in there The source of the statistics in the article is a political expert from the University of East Anglia if you care to read it I always check the origination of the source before using it as an example

The populace bullying the experts becase, you know, it's elitist to know things... years of public voting for amateur singers on shit tv shows have dumbed down the meaning of democracy.

Joan the Express is the most populist paper in the UK, and that's no mean achievement. Most of its
front pages for the last many years have been designed to fuel xenophobia. It's a disgraceful publication, so I suggest that you look for first hand sources or at least from decent newspapers if you're taking its "news" seriously.

Joan I read your link to the Express article. Well, yes, it has the word expert and some Express propaganda side to side in the headline. So does this gem: www.express.co.uk/news/science/728897/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-consciousness-continue-SOUL

quandry

Your post of 19.06 (i think)

Awesome

Its funny but if there are sides to this, most people I know are willing to read anything and everywhere if necessary ( even the hideous Guardian) and yet some people seem to curtail their reading somewhat as some papers are beneath them.

autumn

There would be blood. Of this I am certain, people pushed to the bloody brink before, have no doubt, it would be like nothing this country has ever seen. There would be anarchy. For days and weeks

I keep seeing that leavers would not have a problem if they lost, they wouldn't complain half as much as remainers as remainers are a bunch of remoaners

But leavers would create anarchy

Is that right? Surely leavers would just either accept it or go back to court and appeal until they won ...like the remoaners

And i should clarify

I dont think this court case is a delaying tactic...i think brexit will go through. I dont believe it can be stopped

TES

Do you wonder why no MP attempted to vote against or block through filler bustering all of Amsterdam, Lisbon, Dublin, Tony Blair rebate surrender treaties?

What you want is each constituent (Barron?) acting as if each constituent is an independent political unit even when it comes to international treaties.

I am afraid we just have to disagree.

But leavers would create anarchy

yes I see what you mean but I dont think many remainers understand people have been affected by the EU, and when people say they have they are told they are racist, imagining it or the stats tell a different story...

so if the initial vote had gone remain, yes I would have been greatly worried about the country -personally and people I know as friends would have accepted it. But the people whose lives have been affected by it - not so sure.
But the vote did go Leave - so to now have it fall by the way side - when it was a clear win, yes I would expect riots.

I mean the world cup, Uk wins, but Fifa says - no we didnt when we can clearly see we did, would be all out outrage. very different to loosing in a fair fight.

It cannot be likened to a football match!

And I haven't really heard much about how people have been adversely affected by being members of the EU.

I have heard anecdotes about not getting doctors appointments or school places urns proof that this is s result of being part of the EU. Just nonsensical rants.

Please tell me more.

urgh where there you have it in a nutshell winky. in a nutshell.

but I would love to be able to go through life and so easily throw off concerns, it must make for a very simple easy life

Last person on MN who was asked to tell us how the EU had negatively affected their lives, finally told about a sports centre that "the EU built" instead of a school or surgery.... Yes, really.

The question is, would civil unrest be more likely if we fail to leave the EU, or if a hard Brexit results in widespread unemployment and severe cuts to public services.

At least in the former scenario we would still have a police force to deal with the riots...

Yes Kaija, one resignation so far. We need strong and brave politicians at the moment and I haven't seen many so far...

I keep remembering Robin Cook resigning from the front benches over Irak. There was a lot of hidden disagreement obviously that he'd kept hidden until that moment. I wonder if we will see similar over Art 50...

and in accordance to your model, MPs from those constituencies who did not vote to join the EEC should have been opposing all EU initiatives for the past 40 years. Shouldn't they ?

Many (most?) of the people able to vote in 1974 are dead and there have been quite a few general elections since then. MPs and political parties have been quite free to formulate policy as they see fit over the last 40 years, as they still are. With enough political will, the U.K. could have left the EU long ago.

The last referendum was in June. Again what is so scary about minority representation?