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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris grabs his clown suit for Halloween, whilst we wonder if parliament survive until Bonfire Night

982 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/10/2016 13:23

Remember, remember the 5th of November. Gunpower, treason and plot. For I see no reason Why Gunpowder Treason Should ever be forgot.

Here we are 401 years after Guy Fawkes was foiled. The failed attempt to kill the King and destroy parliament celebrates stopping what is now regarded generally as an attempted act of terrorism but to others he was a martyr.

This division would form part of the dynamic between various factions following the death of Elizabeth I which eventually led the civil war as Charles I dismissed Parliament to avoid its scrutiny. A division that lead to Irish and Scottish uprisings. A division that lead to the lost of many of our then colonies to another nation.

You start to wonder just how much has changed within British Society.

The dynamics of the era might be different, but following the referendum vote we have a power vacuum into which our uncertain direction and future is fuelling cries of ‘traitor’, there is widespread loathing of Europeans and their values who apparently ‘threaten our way of life’, many are simply given the label of ‘potential terrorist’ purely for their religion, there is ill feeling throughout Ireland, in Scotland, there is talk of revolt and uprising, our parliamentary democracy seems potentially under threat by the power of the crown and the relative stability of the long reign of Queen Elizabeth must end soon and her heir to the throne is a man named Charles.

Strangely enough, many of the rights being quoted in the a50 case originate from this same period of turbulence in British history, or from the direct consequences of it. It is not a coincidence.

So where are we at? The decision on a50 and what it means for our parliament is due before the end of the month. It is not likely to be the final ruling but it will set the tone and direction for what happens next. Is it likely to win?

In my opinion, whilst the constitutional argument might be strong in principle the challenge has a great deal of merit. Several of these might win out but the most compelling of these is: If a50 is triggered and our government is unable to reach an agreement by the end of two years we will leave the EU and rights will be removed as a direct result which is outside the power of the royal prerogative.

Against this, May herself has set up an atmosphere where the court challenge which is a protected right of the people to challenge the government has been framed as ‘subverting democracy’ which raises questions about how the ruling will be accepted if it goes in favour of the claimant. The anger on display on Question time last night is worrying. The government must make a strong point about respecting the ruling even if they challenge it. And conversely if the challenge looses, they must acknowledge its merits and legitimacy to appeal rather than allowing it to be framed as a blank cheque for their agenda.

It must – once again - be stressed that the challenge is not about thwarting Brexit. It is about making sure that Brexit is done properly and with due diligence.

And you have to seriously wonder if May is using due diligence. Donald Tusk said we might get into a situation where it is ‘hard brexit’ or ‘no brexit’. This has been interpreted as an EU threat. Personally I think it is nothing of sort. It’s a warning. For our own good.

The much talked about CETA agreement (Candian Free Trade agreement) all but collapsed on Friday due to a single region of Belgium opposing it. It is now in last chance saloon to save the deal. This is the context behind Tusk’s comment. He also warned that CETA might be the EU’s last FTA as result of the difficulties in trying to pass it.

What he meant was the chances are that no agreement will be possible with the approach the British seem to be taking. This means the alternatives will be a chaotic unmanaged exit with no transitional deal or a realisation that we are better off sticking in the EU afterall.

Understanding this is important. May is missing this in her determination to be tough, and is further alienating European leaders. May has made assurances to Nissan, but the reality is she is in no position to make any such promises as the reality is if she stick so tightly to the line on immigration she has no way of keeping them. The EU will give us no ground at all here no matter what anyone says. The harder May is, they harder they will be.

When Cameron tried to do a deal which restricted migration, the brick wall he hit was the fact he could find no evidence to back up the claim that migration was a problem. When he turned to MigrationWatch for help the best they could come up with was newspaper clippings. The UK lie 13th in the EEA for migration. The EU pointed out that all the problems this highlighted where caused by UK level policy rather than EU policy and Cameron was forced to admit that hostility to migration was much more cultural rather than an economic or one over services. As a commentor in the FT sums up: “In other words, lots of middle English people culturally dislike immigrants even though the immigrant didn’t have any negative impact on them.” Notably Thursday’s questiontime came from Hartlepool – a area with hardly any immigration and where 95.6% of the population are white english born. Its also been a week where there has been uproar over 14 refugee children coming to the UK due to their age, gender and lack of cuteness, whilst announcements over no more money for the NHS have been all but totally ignored. It’s a sentiment that is getting increasingly difficult to argue with especially with the overall tone coming from May’s lips and actions.

Tusk’s speech was also strong on 1930s references and this is largely the motivation behind strong comments from Hollande and Merkel about a deal being hard to get. They simply won’t stand for rhetoric which they believe sounds as if it has fascist undertones. The message was lost in the British press though. On top of this, even if Hollande goes, Saroksy and Juppe have been lining up to talk about moving Calais’s problems to Kent. Something that is entirely possible if we disregard our international commitments to Dublin.

This is why we need the article 50 ruling so badly. And this is why May is so opposed to it. It actually gives her a way to back down and save face. Failing that parliament must up the ante and pressure May with its full force – and it may cost her dear. And this is why the right wing media who make a profit from peddling lies about migration are so opposed to them as May is such a kindred spirit.

It has got nothing to do with an elite conspiracy to derail Brexit. Many, many remainers with heavy hearts think it must happen to prevent a further lurch to the right. It is not because Brexit must be stopped, but because May’s self destructive vision and approach to Brexit must be stopped and replaced by an approach that at least acknowledges the dangers rather than labelling it as treason or a lack of patriotism to do so. Marmitegate has been our warning; Leadsom has this week has been unable to refute the possibility that food prices will go up 27% something that many working class leave voters who feel left behind just can’t afford. That way lies even greater hardship and division.

Brexit MUST have a transitional deal if it is to work at all, however unpopular this might be and however people are afraid that delays will kill Brexit entirely or be seen as a fudge as this is in the national interest. This needs to start being the approach of all and pushed to the public by Leavers and Remainers alike

Brexit MUST not trigger a50 on a certain date because May made a political promise to her supporters and this happens to suit the EU’s agenda too. It must be when we are ready, when we have a better consensus and when we are prepared. The uncertainty over whether we will achieve a smooth change is as damaging as a delay to investment. Brexit MUST also include tackling xenophobic attitudes and confronting our centuries old ingrained mentality as this brand of ‘British Values’ were the ones that lead us not to our greatest moment, but the one that lead us to perhaps our greatest crisis and threat to our future.

I find a certain irony - and also a creeping fear - that the first article 50 ruling should fall at this time of year. Especially since the British celebration is being forgotten increasingly being replaced in favour of the more American Halloween. I wonder what further frights and horrors await us over the next couple of weeks.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
LurkingHusband · 25/10/2016 11:04

Practically, I think it's highly unlikely that people in work will be removed, because it would be politically dangerous and administratively complex.

The problem is, in the current climate, that may be taken as a challenge, rather than a disincentive. Almost channelling JFK: We choose to do these things in the name of Brexit; not because they are easy, but because they are difficult

Once you tune in to the deranged core of the Brexit religion - because that's what it is to some - you enter a world where people are burned at the stake to save their immortal soul.

To quote from history: "God will know his own"

whatwouldrondo · 25/10/2016 11:29

I await to here from Zac again later today then.... You me and a lot of other people too red . A lot of (this side of ) Londoners are seeing this as a chance to fight for their identity and what they believe in.

On the student deportations, I remember a call going out on the alumnae pages of London unversities because several BA vans had pulled up at London's International Student house whilst they were having a cinema night and were systematically challenging every student there. I don't know how many were arrested but talk about Orwellian control by fear, and going for an easy target. More Orwellian measures described here blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/edinburgh-university-staff-are-now-under-surveillance-thanks-to-the-home-office/ Note an Indian newspaper publishing an article on 5 reasons not to continue your plans to go to college in the UK

In today's news even those universities that Rudd /May might consider would attract "the brightest and the best" look set to be targeted as a result of Home Office bureaucrats who don't know their arse from their elbow . www.theguardian.com/education/2016/oct/25/overseas-students-crackdown-lse-kings-soas-universities?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Shooting yourself in the foot seems to be the political cause de jour......

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2016 11:38

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-hard-policy-theresa-may-andrew-tyrie-not-sustainable-a7378336.html
Theresa May comes under fire for 'unsustainable' Brexit strategy

Theresa May’s policy of “saying as little as possible” about what Brexit will look like is not sustainable and will damage Britain’s economic prospects, a senior Conservative MP has warned.

Andrew Tyrie, the chair of the Treasury Select Committee, said the Prime Minister’s reticence was in danger of creating “considerable cost to the UK” as businesses planned for the worst when it came to investment.

Mr Tyrie’s comments came after Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn accused the PM of staging a “chaotic Brexit”, and Scottish National Party leader Niola Sturgeon branded Brexit talks in Westminster “deeply frustrating”.

www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/democracy-in-the-dock/18901#.WA8r-4WcHIV
Democracy inthedock
Both sides in the Brexit legal challenge dismiss the will of the people

Interesting article on the a50 challenge which says both the government and the challenge are undemocratic.

www.ft.com/content/3876648e-9905-11e6-8f9b-70e3cabccfae
UK trade sector warns of Brexit customs disruption at borders
Upheaval forecast if new IT system not ready on time

Mindful of the poor history of big public-sector computer projects in the UK, industry groups are raising the alarm over the risk of mistakesin the three-year-old IT programme, which was facing difficulties even before Brexit.

In a submission to a government-industry joint consultative committee, the UK trade sector said: “Trade has changed significantly since the 1970s and the concept of rolling the clock back 40 years and introducing frontier clearances … does not seem feasible.”

UK customs checks for non-EU products are presently processed on the Customs Handling of Import and Export Freight service (Chief), a near-25-year-old computer system that accounts for £34bn in revenue.

Britain aims to replace it with the new Customs Declaration Service (CDS) system by December 2018, just a few months before the UK’s likely departure from the EU.

This.Will.Not.Be.Ready.On.Time.
I would put money on there being huge problems.

Commons ESC @CommonsESC
Liam Fox to give emergency evidence on Parliamentary scrutiny of #CETA to @CommonsESC on Wednesday at 2pm
www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/european-scrutiny-committee/news-parliament-20151/ceta-fox-evidence-16-17/
Dr Liam Fox MP, Secretary of State for International Trade,is appearing before the European Scrutiny Committee to discuss why the Government did not give MPs the chance to debate CETA (EU-Canada trade deal) before the Council expected to agree its implementation, and explore the wider Brexit implications of a scrutiny override on such an important trade deal.

5 July 2016: The Commission published its proposals for the signature, provisional application (implementation) and conclusion of the EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) between the EU and its Member States and Canada.
7 September 2016: The Committee recommended the document for debate on the floor of the House.
6 October 2016: The Minister of State at the Department for International Trade (DIT) wrote to the Committee asking for the documents to be cleared ahead of the Foreign Affairs Council (FAC) on 18 October, to allow the Minister to agree to signature of the Agreement.
12 October 2016: The European Scrutiny Committee grants conditional scrutiny waiver for signature only.
17 October 2016: Secretary of State informs the Committee of the Government’s intention to override scrutiny, as it also plans to agree to its provisional application and conclusion at the FAC.
18 October 2016: The Government confirms its support for signature, provisional application and conclusion of CETA.

Ooo popcorn time!
Can wait to hear why parliament didn't get to talk about it, and why its the British government that took away scrutiny from British representatives. Of course I'm sure its the nasty EU not allowing us to but allowing Wallonia to get a say.

Allie Renison @AllieRenison
Australian Trade Minister says he has received legal advice against entering into any talks on a UK trade agreement
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5f0e18e0-9a26-11e6-b375-620558266136
Australia rules out talks until Britain has left EU

In a blow to Liam Fox’s plans to line up deals for the UK to sign shortly after Brexit, his Australian opposite number Steven Ciobo said that he had received advice that this would be illegal.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deals-uk-aid-budget-commitment-to-win-trade-priti-patel-international-development-a7379046.html
UK's £12bn aid budget could be spent on winning Brexit trade deals instead, Priti Patel suggests
Aid spending should not 'exclude the whole area of trade and trade opportunities', the International Development Secretary said

Wasn't this suggested to be illegal?

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Heathrow already has the votes in Commons - SNP support, & free Labour vote. That's why courts/ threat of by election is most potent weapon. In particular threat of resignation/by election in ex Lib dem/ remain friendly seat or seats, is a potent weapon, but only till decision. wind behind Heathrow's sails - 1. Government can argue that LHR is much better and much more accessible for rest of country 2. Heathrow convinced Government, it will no longer breach EU pollution limits - not planes, use of electric cars rather than diesel ones. 3. SNP support for Heathrow links neutralises any likely level of Tory rebellion

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Boris Johnson says "yes" he will still oppose Heathrow after leaving Cabinet...[meeting?]

Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn
Zac Goldsmith latest: no immediate resignation this afternoon, speaking to constituents first. Statement this evening.

From June:
metro.co.uk/2016/06/03/irony-is-dead-ukip-mep-appeals-to-eu-for-help-in-libel-case-5922322/
Irony is dead: UKIP MEP appeals to EU for help in libelcase

She has been an outspoken critic of the EU as a high-ranking member of UKIP.

But now the tables have turned for Jane Collins – who has appealed to the European Parliament to prevent her from paying potentially substantial damages.

In an incredible dash of irony, the UKIP MEP claimed that she has ‘immunity’ against legal action taken against her, because she is a Member of the European Parliament.

The High Court previously ruled that Ms Collins had libellous intentions when she accused Rotherham’s Labour MPs Sarah Champion, John Healey and Sir Kevin Barron of ‘knowing all about’ 1,400 cases of grooming and rape of young girls in the town.

Today:
John Stevens ‏@johnestevens
Awkward... MEPs have voted not to give Ukip's Jane Collins immunity to stop her being sued by Labour MPs for libel

John Rees-Evans has announced he is standing for the UKIP leadership. Yes John Rees-Evans of 'Gay donkey tried to rape my horse' fame.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-candidate-gay-donkey-tried-to-rape-my-horse-9940230.html

OP posts:
Unicornsarelovely · 25/10/2016 11:39

Here's an idea only suitable for halloween: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/jacob-rees-mogg-replace-mark-carney-bank-england/

LurkingHusband · 25/10/2016 11:45

Are there any spectators like me who think UK government is starting to resemble a sixth-form debating team who - a la Spinal Tap wrong-turn-backstage - have accidentally wondered into the worlds spotlight ?

I'm beginning to wonder what Dan Quayle is doing nowadays ?

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2016 12:05

I do think if Zac resigns, his goose is cooked. He was a leaver in one of the heaviest remain constituencies in the country. With strong LD support in the area and the Conservative vote split between Goldsmith and an official candidate I don't think he can win the seat again.

He rebelled against the government over European citizen rights (1 of only 2 tories to do so) so it worries him.

Personally I think this resignation will not be today. It will be after the vote next year. Why? Cos Zac's position campaigning is undermined if he is no longer an MP. And the Lib Dems are also anti-Heathrow so locals aren't really loosing anything by loosing Zac. He is dispensable.

We shall see. He will look bad now though if he doesn't quit today, so that will mark his cards even further if there is an early GE anyway...

Dr Tania Mathias MP ‏@tania_mathias
Terrible decision by Govt. I will continue to fight against 3rd runway at Heathrow. I am confident there will never be expansion at Heathrow

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Henry Kissinger just turned up at Number 10

Ned Donovan ‏@Ned_Donovan
That makes two visits by Kissinger to Number 10 in two days. What is going on?

Mr. Singh ‏@StatisticSingh
@faisalislam When you’re in a tight spot and things are unravelling I guess you call in the most experienced political scientist you can

Michael Wood ‏@Michael_Wood100
@faisalislam Kissenger when asked how he might deal w vry adverse neg sit, " I would try & improve the mood" TM take note !

martynday ‏@martynday
@faisalislam is the answer to Brexit invading Vietnam?

Azeem Azhar ‏@azeem
@faisalislam small places (like Scotland, Ireland & Wallonia) tremble. Kissinger's in da house.

Robert Hutton @RobDotHutton
"You should bomb Luxembourg, then deny it."

jochristiesmith ‏@jochristiesmith
@faisalislam what, again???

martynday ‏@martynday
@faisalislam is the answer to Brexit invading Vietnam?

Mike Holden ‏@MikeHolden42
@faisalislam That's twice in the space of a week, I'm certain he was there a few days ago?

Pat Ashworth ‏@ThePatAshworth
@faisalislam We'll be bombing Cambodia before you know it.

Brian Kieran Rooney ‏@brian_kieran
@faisalislam I knew things were bad but ...

FredinSpain ‏@FredinSpain
@faisalislam I can't think of anyone that has done more to destroy the post war dream than that evil bastard Kissinger.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tories-sneak-out-u-turn-9120427
Tories sneak out U-turn on apprenticeship cuts while everyone is talking about Heathrow Airport

This is actually a good thing. (Government doing the right thing shocker!!!)

Ooooo as I type this:
Chris Ship ‏@chrisshipitv
BREAKING: Looks like @ZacGoldsmith has resigned already
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh
Zac Goldsmith has told his local Tory association he is definitely quitting. Scoop from @Martha_Gill

Westministenders. Boris grabs his clown suit for Halloween, whilst we wonder if parliament survive until Bonfire Night
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 25/10/2016 12:08

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt
I'm afraid my memory of how the mayoral election was conducted is too fresh for me to buy the story about Goldsmith's strong moral character. Imagine thinking you can divide communities in the most diverse and beautiful city on earth, but some extra tarmac is just beyond the pale.

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TheBathroomSink · 25/10/2016 12:10

Rees-Evans was on the Daily Politics yesterday. Made the expected impression.

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 2m2 minutes ago
Richmond Conservatives just confirmed to Sky News Zac G spoken since No 10 decision -intends to tender his resignation - has not done so yet

ToujeoQueen · 25/10/2016 12:12

Zac has now resigned, triggering a by election.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2016 12:17

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Richmond Conservatives just confirmed to Sky News Zac G spoken since No 10 decision -intends to tender his resignation - has not done so yet

Mayor of London ‏@MayorofLondon
Heathrow expansion is the wrong decision for London, and the wrong decision for Britain. Read my full statement:
www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/statement-on-the-governments-aviation-announcemen
An expanded Gatwick would have boosted our economy without the huge air and noise pollution problems Heathrow will create. There is cross-party opposition to Heathrow expansion, and cross-party support for Gatwick expansion. A new runway at Heathrow will be devastating for air quality across London. Air pollution around Heathrow already exceeds legal levels. Govt must set out a meaningful plan to ensure Londoners do not suffer from the additional air & noise pollution from Heathrow expansion. I will continue to challenge this decision and I am exploring how I can best be involved in any legal process over the coming months.

Heathrow challenges to use those nasty lawyers against poor little Mrs May again?

Oh dear.

James Berry MP ‏@JamesBerryMP
Just heard Heathrow has been chosen over Gatwick. I'm very disappointed & will be contributing to the debate shortly. Statement to follow.

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whatwouldrondo · 25/10/2016 12:17

Patty I have been on that Chengdu flight, and had a long chat with the Chief Purser about it's viability because not only was it half empty but it had no First Class and the billionaire /millionaires of the mega cities of the Chinese hinterland want their bling (the hotel I stayed in had a huge ballroom that was set up like Wembley arena for a Beyoncé concert, it was booked solid for the biggest weddings I have ever seen anywhere in Asia)

He said that the flight was paying its way via cargo, smoked salmon on the way out, iPads and iPhones on the way back. Perhaps the trade deficit was unsustainable Hmm

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2016 12:25

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Source close to anti Heathrow cabinet minister tells me Cabinet meeting "all very open & collaborative"

Would that be Johnson or Greening?

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Vince Cable tells @DMcCaffreySKY unlikely to stand in Richmond Park "already have LD candidate" but seems interested in Twickenham again^
Tania Mathias is Twickenham.

Sam Macrory ‏@sammacrory
It'd be a v different by-election but:
Swing LibDems need to win Richmond from Tories: 19.35%
Swing from Tories to LibDems in Witney: 19.3%

I disagree with this looking more difficult. The Lib Dems lost 23.5% of their vote in 2015. Its doable. Witney realistically never was.

Especially if the Conservatives stand a candidate. (Perhaps the smart move is not to?)

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LurkingHusband · 25/10/2016 12:27

Zac has now resigned, triggering a by election.

Cite - it's not hit the Beeb yet ?

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2016 12:33

Lurking. His constituency party have effectively confirmed. See note in post above. He has just not officially given notice. Hence BBC not saying. They are doing a Beeb.

Its good enough for BBC's Andrew Neil to be tweeting that he's quit though.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-zac-goldsmith-resigns-as-richmond-park-mp_uk_580f38e6e4b0f479c0d7e30d?14550v8ubm3n5ewmi

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PattyPenguin · 25/10/2016 12:36

Grauniad's got the Zac Goldsmith resignation as breaking news
www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/oct/25/heathrow-gatwick-airport-expansion-decision-day-politics-live

namechange34 · 25/10/2016 12:38

Lurking:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/25/heathrow-airport-expansion-gatwick-boris-johnson-live/
LibDems will be super excited. I would put money on the fact they will get back in at the by election. Zac massively misjudged the Richmond Park area. For those that don't know it, it's not only wealthy English, there is a huge community of well educated middle class western Europeans. Sadly of course a lot of them don't get a vote and didn't in the referendum as they don't have British citizenship, but a lot are married to Brits. The area hosts the German school and attracts a lot of German speakers.

missmoon · 25/10/2016 12:45

About the Tories fielding a candidate in the by-election if Zac Goldsmith runs as a candidate, I seem to remember reading that it's Tory party policy to always field a candidate, so this will split the Tory vote (unless Zac Goldsmith decides not to stand again).

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2016 12:45

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37760563?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Heathrow and what they said before

May in 2008: case for Heathrow expansion was "seriously flawed"
May in 2009: pledged to "fight to stop the third runway".
May in 2010: "strongly" welcomed the cancellation of plans for a third runway
Hammond in 2010: a third runway at Heathrow was "dead. Dead as a Norwegian parrot."
Hammond in 2015: "London's role as an international air transport hub can be maintained without additional runways at Heathrow."
Johnson: saying building one would be "investing in decline".
Johnson: "The third runway is a sham and a delusion and it will never happen"
Johnson: he would lie "in front of those bulldozers and stop the building, stop the construction of that third runway".
Greening in 2015: "Trying to expand Heathrow is like trying to build an eight bedroom mansion on the site of a terraced house.
"It is a hub airport that is just simply in the wrong place."
Fox: the government should "push on" with expansion and that "this decision has been put off for too long whilst other nations press ahead with growing their airport capacity.

Spot the MP with a constituency in Somerset

OP posts:
Figmentofmyimagination · 25/10/2016 13:11

Gove talking fantasy land bollocks on world at one.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2016 13:16

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB
Ladbrokes opening Richmond Park odds
Zac 4/6
LD 6/4
CON (Not Zac) 8/1
LAB 100/1
UKIP 100/1
GRN 100/1

I wonder where the money will go...

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 25/10/2016 13:18

PoliticsMarkets @politicsmarkets
WILLIAM HILL: RICHMOND PARK BY ELECTION.
10/11 Zac Goldsmith**;
11/10 Lib Dems;
10/1 Conservatives;
100/1 Greens;
200/1 Labour;
200/1 UKIP.

And Wiliam Hill think its even closer.

OP posts:
merrymouse · 25/10/2016 13:33

Agree 'namechange' - it's been a lib dem/Tory swing seat for a long time, and of the Tories who live there, a lot are the 'citizen of the world' types who Theresa May has made very clear are of no interest and many will have voted remain.

No risk of a change of government, but loads of incentive to protest against both Heathrow and Brexit.

whatwouldrondo · 25/10/2016 13:33

The swing to Zac at the last election (and to Tania Mathias next door) was not just reflecting the national swing but a very focused campaign by the Conservative Party in the area. Cameron appeared frequently and "researchers" were ringing every other day to test reactions, many people were pissed off by the constant harping on about immigration which was not an issue locally. National funding was also forthcoming for some local projects e.g. from the school maintenance fund to convert a college to a school that was the Council leader's (a former speechwriter for Cameron) legacy project

Underlying the swing was also increased affluence but then those more affluent voters are very likely to be both pro immigration and pro remain. Zac's more recent conduct of the Mayoral election and stance on Brexit will not have gone down well.

I think a lot will depend on the calibre of the Libdem candidate, hopefully the Libdems will run this at a national level because there is also the issue of the local libdems, who have been a bit clueless rudderless since losing Vince as a figurehead..........

LurkingHusband · 25/10/2016 13:37

Assuming the seat goes non-Tory, and reduces the working majority to 14 (?) are there any political historians who can remind us how other governments with a slim majority coped just under 4 years until the next election ?

whatwouldrondo · 25/10/2016 13:40

I would add that Vince's mansion tax also switched off a lot of voters in a constituency where an average semi is £1.3m

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