Does anyone else sense a change of mood re Brexit?

[twofingerstoGideon]

I was rather astounded following the referendum that politicians of all shades weren't making noises about Brexit needing parliamentary scrutiny etc., but at last - after almost four months - it's as if people are waking up, noticing the shambles and saying "Hang on a minute... I'm not sure we should be doing this..." It was shocking to see the lack of reaction to the xenophobia and the way politicians of all shades seemed to be saying we had to blindly obey the very slim majority. The lack of disgust expressed by the press/politicians about the barefaced lies used by the Leave campaign (not to mention that poster) was also mind-blowing.

Has anyone else noticed a change in the air? I'm starting to feel slightly hopeful for the first time since 24th June that the country isn't just going to jump off a cliff in order to follow 'the will of the people'.

Anyone else, or am I deluded?

Yes,

But jaws is not talking about the uk, is she? She is talking about what happens if they move to Europe and her husband is a uk citizen.

Ds is in S5, going to sit his Highers (for University entry) this year.

However resilient and clever he is, this is not a good time to move.

And I speak as someone with experience of multiple moves in my teens; whose parents had to pay back part of their "bond" to the NZ Government, when they decided that NZ wasn't for them and they need to move back after just 2 years and not the 3 required to pay off the bond.

As it was we got back to the UK only 6 months before my O Grades. It was bloody hard work to catch up before the exams and I am very clever - and even the following year when I sat my Highers I was still catching up and had to work much harder than my friends. My exam results would have been very detrimentally affected if my parents had left it a year to "save money".

Fortunately they didn't think "Oh, she's clever and resilient. She'll cope"

So it's not that simple just to say "why don't Remainers move to another EU country?"

Ime, moving between different countries as an expat for a multinational is a very different experience from relocating a family from scratch without corporate support. Especially if you are both needing to work.

I think the reality is that young people with transferable skills will be able to choose to work elsewhere, while those of us who are older (eek) are more likely to end up trapped.

And British young people without transferable skills will be a bit stuck - no more auf wiedesen pet etc once freedom of movement is gone.

larry what? I'm saying that moving my dual nationality family to my home country after Brexit would not as easy as ww is suggesting. Right now house market is stagnant in my area due to Brexit. This "if you don't like it, get out" discourse says a lot.

Ime, moving between different countries as an expat for a multinational is a very different experience from relocating a family from scratch without corporate support. Especially if you are both needing to work.

Yes. The danger now is that many British people recently installed in France and Spain, the vast majority of whom fall into the second of your two categories, will be forced back to the UK because many of them rely on sterling income (savings, pension, or rent).

If this happens, it will destroy my "falling net migration gets May off the hook" narrative lol

pretty similar situation with my oldest child: GCSEs plus high level learning in a particular field which is her future (she says). Not easy to uproot them, or fair!

The: " If you don't like it then leave" narrative is indicative of the argument of leavers.

Democracy and sovereignty ? Nah the tyranny of the (slight) majority more like.

I've noticed that all WW posts are the same. She arrives making a hyperbolic remark which is a large appeal to emotion and not factually based. When challenged on it she starts with the "sneering" comments about ordinary people or about respecting democracy, with no irony about her own attempts to stifle debate.

Now telling people who challenge her views if they don't like it they can leave.

Utterly vacuous.

I think the views of a long term expat who has not used public services such as education or health and who (I am guessing here!) was probably an overseas expat SAHM whose husband earned a lot of money working for a multinational are probably not representative!

figment I guess you've hit a nerve there...

Dh has a somewhat niche skill set but in engineering which is not that well paid
I work pt in unskilled work (although in have got a levels and a bit of a degree...)
2 school age DC
I would leave tomorrow if dh would consider it
We have a decent amount of equity in the house for now
But he won't - not until it affects our kids

Figment,

I think your post is spot on. I do think there should be a correlation between your involvement in and commitment to a nation and your say in its future.

If you are an expat or a 'citizen of the world' Londoner who is purely here while it is convenient for you (and have probably never travelled beyond the m25) then you are not really interested in the uk.

Can't you say the same thing about those people in the economically depressed deindustrialised areas though Larry? Voting leave out of some misguided of protest or the idea that the EU is responsible for their woes isn't really taking the interests of the country to heart.

not really interested in the uk, nice one! I have travelled all over the UK in the past. At the moment my enthusiasm seems to have dissapeared, can't think why...

Jaws,

I can. Suddenly it is not the low tax comfy annexe to Europe that it once was. Tant pis.

Small,

This whole thread is about the 'thick' people ooop north who voted 'wrongly', so I think mentioning the self interested on the remain side is fair enough. We are all self interested at the end of the day and want the best for our children. However the majority regretting the decision seem to be considering quitting before we even know what the future looks like. What will they do if we end up changing our minds?

The whole thread isn't about thick people 'oop' north, or it wasn't. It was about attitudes changing, now that the reality of leaving is beginning to sink in. We've just had Lord Prior speaking out saying that a hard brexit would be a disaster, and we must keep the single market.

But, IMO, there is a long way to go to repair the damage done by the Referendum. It will be difficult to put the genie of racism unleashed by the Referendum back into the bottle. The brain drain has already started, so we may still lose ten years worth of scientific research. It's so much easier to destroy something quickly than to build it up in the first place.

Larry sure, there is a small multinational expat community in London, transiting through on 'ex pat terms' and 'not connected' to the rest of the country, just as there is a small expat community in every country where trade is done. But they are not the voices on this thread.

And anyway I can't imagine that wealthy transiting expats would expect to have much of a 'say' in brexit - apart from to point out what a foolish idea it is, and generally feel sorry for us as they transit on out of here!

The thread isn't about "thick people up north" fucks sake.

The leave vote was incorrect pricely because we didn't have any idea of what the future would look like.

If you are an expat or a 'citizen of the world' Londoner who is purely here while it is convenient for you (and have probably never travelled beyond the m25) then you are not really interested in the uk.

Is this a significant demographic? "Straw people who have never left London"?

LarryGrylls Want the best for our children? The vast majority of whom voted to remain, indeed the majority under the age of 46 voted to remain? That for me was a very big factor in my vote I will admit, that my children and their peers who are just starting out in their lives and careers and will have to deal with this mess, and fund my pension and healthcare, were passionately pro EU, with their hearts as well as their minds. For me approaching the end of my paid working life that was a moral issue, I could not betray their wishes for the country's future.

If things are looking better for the Remain side I do not think you can dismiss how this issue pushed and is pushing young people into becoming politically active, and that is the portion of the vote that will grow as the older vote inevitably shrinks.

smallfox2002
"The thread isn't about "thick people up north" fucks sake."

No its about those that can't be "trusted" to vote the "correct" way and vote remain.

"The leave vote was incorrect pricely because we didn't have any idea of what the future would look like."

Then maybe that should have been what the remain campaign should have been about.

If you really want to blame anyone for the Brexit, blame those people that put together such a piss poor campaign for remaining.

Surely those expat "citizen of the world Londoners" won't have had a vote in the first place?

whatwouldrondo

Are your stats from the same pool as those that quote 75% of 18 to 24 year olds voted to remain?

When it was only about 33%.

The Remain campaign was indeed piss poor, but that doesn't help us now. We need to have a proper debate about where we want the country to go. This has not been helped by the three Brexiteers opening their mouths and spouting rubbish, nor by Theresa May's bossy attitude at the EU meeting the other night. I keep hoping that someone of ability will come forward to lead the negotiations, but it looks like a forlorn hope. I would like to see some Politicians calling out the racism, but have a fat chance of that with the Tory party now being BlueKip.

No I think she's correct with those stats:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/meet-the-75-young-people-who-voted-to-remain-in-eu

Peregrina

Why is Therasa May being "bossy"?

Surely her job is to secure the best deal for the country?

I agree that we need a real debate, but that won't happen until remainers decide to