Does anyone else sense a change of mood re Brexit?

[twofingerstoGideon]

I was rather astounded following the referendum that politicians of all shades weren't making noises about Brexit needing parliamentary scrutiny etc., but at last - after almost four months - it's as if people are waking up, noticing the shambles and saying "Hang on a minute... I'm not sure we should be doing this..." It was shocking to see the lack of reaction to the xenophobia and the way politicians of all shades seemed to be saying we had to blindly obey the very slim majority. The lack of disgust expressed by the press/politicians about the barefaced lies used by the Leave campaign (not to mention that poster) was also mind-blowing.

Has anyone else noticed a change in the air? I'm starting to feel slightly hopeful for the first time since 24th June that the country isn't just going to jump off a cliff in order to follow 'the will of the people'.

Anyone else, or am I deluded?

Goodnight

see below for bitchfest about WW

Thank fuck I've got dual citizenship
I will make sure My kids won't suffer because of old glimmers harking back to a golden age that never existed!
My dad used to tell me about the late 60s/early 70s
The white English men who refused to do work they felt was "beneath them"
He told me about being called out by the union when he was desperate to just work and provide for his family.
The sexism, the way disabled people were treated (or not as the case may be!)
But fear not!!
Our illustrious leader will soon have us back to the 1930s!
The poor knowing their place
Work houses
No NHS
Decent Education only for those that can afford it
Erosion of women's and workers rights

Yeah

The future will be glorious

badders absolutely right! so very depressing, meanwhile the Brexit cheerleaders keep waving their flags..

see below for bitchfest about WW

Don't flatter yourself, I'm sure no one can be bothered to discuss you.

A few of us would like to discuss specific points about your opinion on where we are heading using a little more than sound bites but that's about it.

Bugger me
I've depressed myself
Off to cuddle my ds2 and watch some trashy tv

How is it paranoid jaws?

yes Badders, I am going to have a curry and a drink and then go to bed trying not to think of the future!

And if the French did respect us, why did they sell the missiles?

Some light relief for those who (like Theresa May? ) are linguistically challenged.

wedon'tcarewhatanyonethinskofusbecausetheyhateus, type of thing... the bad outside world...

peregrina that's very funny!

That's funny peregrina

BoJo is fluent in French though so he can quite literally interpret what is discussed any way he wishes now- nothing new there but a slightly better excuse.

Not the bad outside world at all. I just don't think they liked us before we voted brexit. Clearly in some cases

BoJo is fluent in French , yes he can fuck up in several languages!

I just don't think they liked us before we voted brexit, well, UK had the best and most advantageous deal in the biggest trading union in the world, and EU has put up with whingeing, threats and insults from British (UKIP) MEPs for years. I think Europeans have been very generous, always justifying British "eccentricities".

That's hilarious peregrina!

And if the French did respect us, why did they sell the missiles?

The Exocets (5 no.) were sold to Argentina some time before the Falklands war. By April 1982, some 2000 Exocets had been sold to 26 countries. I don't think respect came into it much - we are talking about the arms industry here.

Don't we sell weapons to lots of rather dodgy regimes without much concern as to whom they'll be used against?

What will happen first? The Italians need a bailout, or Deutch Bank collapsing? The EU has major problems that will rear its head soon. It maybe difficult initially for the UK but I'm more convinced than ever that history will judge leaving the EU as the right thing to do. As for Scotland, Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU. Its a bluff by the SNP.

I'm not easily taken aback but wow you are acting like a bunch of rabid hyenas!! Someone speaks against your point of view and pack mentality sets in. Very much like you would see in a group of primates.

And if the French did respect us, why did they sell the missiles?

They also provided - at expense to the future sales of French arms - valuable information to the UK to help dodge the Exocets.

LurkingHusband By some accounts the French were simultaneously preventing Argentina from buying more Exocets on the black market and supplying a technical team to help the Argentinians commission the ones they had. Anecdotally, I heard that after the Falklands they were marketed as battle proven. But, like I said, that's the arms industry for you.

I think that there are two reasonable views on Europe, full federalism or break up. The remainers I have the most respect for are the federalists. They passionately believe that a federal Europe is in all Europeans best interest. They acknowledge that the richer countries will have to subsidise the poorer ones and that the whole zone will need harmonised tax and a single currency. They see an economic dividend and, most importantly, peace and racial tolerance.

What I struggle to accept is those who argue that the status quo is sustainable. Competitive tax regimes, freedom of movement of people between countries with vastly varying GDP per capita and a central bank without real legal authority to do what it has already done (buy sovereign debt in qe).

The linguistic snobbery on this thread (especially Jaws) is irritating. You don't need to be a polyglot to understand the issues.

Jaws, by the way I read your French link (my French is actually passable) and it was about the rise of racism since Brexit. It was nothing to do with Britain being held in contempt by France. France has a huge immigration problem which it deals with quite brutally. There are whole 'cites' where police are afraid to go and, outside metropolitan Paris, real antisemitism (I know this from a close family member who lived there for 10+ years).

The UK is still one of the most racially tolerant countries in Europe. I challenge any English person to go into a Paris bar and say in an English accent that a Parisian is a racist for supporting France outside the EU. I suspect you would get more than lively debate! Yet this happens all the time in the UK now.