Does anyone else sense a change of mood re Brexit?

[twofingerstoGideon]

I was rather astounded following the referendum that politicians of all shades weren't making noises about Brexit needing parliamentary scrutiny etc., but at last - after almost four months - it's as if people are waking up, noticing the shambles and saying "Hang on a minute... I'm not sure we should be doing this..." It was shocking to see the lack of reaction to the xenophobia and the way politicians of all shades seemed to be saying we had to blindly obey the very slim majority. The lack of disgust expressed by the press/politicians about the barefaced lies used by the Leave campaign (not to mention that poster) was also mind-blowing.

Has anyone else noticed a change in the air? I'm starting to feel slightly hopeful for the first time since 24th June that the country isn't just going to jump off a cliff in order to follow 'the will of the people'.

Anyone else, or am I deluded?

bitch-fest?? I only pointed out the fact that UK seems to be the leading country in shit zero hour contracts, and after Brexit British workers will be stuck here with them... I apologized to you before for going down to your level, but I can see that you are as full of contempt as always

Yes, bitch-fest - you know exactly what I mean. And do you have any ideas of your own? I call the remain appeal 'emotional' - what comes back? 'No YOU'RE emotional'. I complaint about contempt - what comes back 'no YOU'RE full of contempt'. Is there any independent thought here at all?

Not sure who is making the ad hominem attacks - all of us it seems. We are not allowed to put an alternative viewpoint. We are all out of step. Oh dear!

Just about everybody on the other side of the argument including you. It's really tiresome and boring. Makes me feel dismissive of your opinions - it's like you don't think much of your own argument so you have to be insulting as well. I wish you would just lay out a case without all the rest. I don't care about you disagreeing. Why would I?

ww the reputation of the British all over the world has sank, if you speak any other language please have a look. You can also see that in any progressive English language publication. And the reason is people like you.

Who's insulted you? You are the first to use horrible language, every time.

If you find the discussion tiresome and boring then hide the thread.

What have zero hours contracts got to do with Brexit, or am I completely missing the point? :-/

Zero hours contracts are illegal where I live in the EU.

"the reputation of the British all over the world has sank"

They've always hated us. This is nothing new. The EU was for France and Germany, always has been always will be

WW have you ever stated on here what you hoped to achieve by Leaving the EU?

I've certainly never seen you say. You seem more intent on stirring up trouble.

I've seen you say you predicted everything correctly, after its happened, but never what you think the benefit will be for us.

The most you've ever said is that you think the EU will implode but if that happens we're going down with it, in or out of the EU.

So what should we all look forced to in our future outside the EU?

We could have been fully in at the beginning of what started as the European Coal and Steel Community, but we were still too hung up on our Empire. Although as Dean Acheson was saying by 1962, we had lost an Empire and not found a role. Still true more than 50 years on. Hence all the nonsense about trading with the 'Anglosphere'. Although there has been a little less of this, in the last few weeks. I think, reality is beginning to kick in.

WW what are the ways in which you are hoping that your own life will improve as a result of leaving the EU?

I don't find the discussion tiresome and boring: I find the insults, sneering and ad hominem attacks tiresome and boring.

I am absolutely not the first to use horrible language: what a rank untruth.

Have I ever stated it? No one's ever asked me to. Read my posts and you'll get a clear idea.

At least some of the benefits will be for those who see their labour valued, their wages rise above minimum and their housing costs fall.

Additional benefits will be more control over who comes into the country. I've seen what's happened in Europe. I don't want it to happen here.

Peregrina: it wasn't our hang ups that prevented us joining in 1963: it was France.

If I had a clear idea of your objectives from voting Leave I wouldn't have asked.

Your reply about is just waffle - what do you actually want to happen?

How will the benefits offset the negative repercussions?

How will I benefit?

In terms of say immigration: I've never suffered the effects of mass immigration: it doesn't affect me. I don't use the health service much, I don't need social housing, and my children didn't go to state school. It probably benefits me by making unskilled labour cheaper.

So you see I am capable of thinking outside my own needs. I am capable of seeing that it affects other people badly. I am also capable of seeing injustice where it doesn't affect me or my family, but does affect other people and other people's families; and of feeling disenfranchised from decision making - even if the decisions may or may not benefit me.

^^ Above not about

Bearbehind: ok

funny "they've always hated us"... No have no idea, do you? UK has had a reputation as an incredibly tolerant, open-minded country where parliamentary democracy is valued and respected. Now the UK is seen as a backward, retrograde and xenophobic little island, not only in Europe but all over the world, and this has happened in a very short space of time. In every country people are asking what has happened to the UK. If you can read any other language and are familiar with other languages you will be able to see it for yourself. But something tells me that if that was the case you'd know that already.

Really, so the French selling Argentina missiles during the Falklands conflict was an act of love! Yep they've always had our backs.

Ah, you're a "patriot" I see. Sorry, but as a liberal European I've always been mistrustful of "patriots".

and 1963?

The UK chose not to join the European Coal and Steel Community in the 1950 because it was seen as weakening trade with the Commonwealth and the USA. Nothing to do with the French.

and 1963?

ok

So does that mean you're not answering ww?

Yes. If I'm honest i think its a bit goady. But I can't tell if you're being goady.