Enough is enough

[RBeer]

We are now in the throes of a right wing agenda willing to bring down the country for its own ideological beliefs. Bad things happen when good people do nothing. I for one will stand up so lest my children say I did nothing.

It seems to me that time would be better spent by not getting sidetracked on threads like these in engaging in arguments but to see if all the energy that exists amongst Remainers can be productively channelled to try and come up with something people can constructively do regarding the question above.

So what has happened to all the Leavers energy? Why shouldn't they be doing something active? Particularly those who say they are not racist? Perhaps they could come on here to tell us what they are doing to fight against racism?I don't regard WinchesterWoman's denials that it's happening as speaking out; that IMO is copping out (being charitable)

Unbelievable magik isn't it . I live in a Remain voting London Borough and would feel wary going anywhere where there was a high and angry Leave vote .

Jesus, Hitchins is such a know-nothing :-/

Or how about 'because the evidence doesn't support it'

also an excellent analysis

I agree Mistigri. This line in particular:

This decision will have its costs – nothing worth having comes free – but a weaker pound isn’t one of them.

Nothing worth having .

I have not personally seen any racism. I have seen people being called racist and xenophobic because they have said that uncontrolled unlimited immigration is not a positive.

The best thing to prevent racism is clarity from the government on immigration and a reiteration that workers and especially skilled workers will always be welcome here.

I have always spoken out against any form of racism as, being if Jewish descent, I have benefited from the uk's tolerant attitude to immigrants.

What do you suggest brexiters do besides the above?

We obviously don't have access to Social Media in Scotland, as apparently the rise in reported xenophobic attacks is all the fault of Social Media

How else can the difference in reported incidents be explained ?

Can someone copy and paste the Parris article? I don't subscribe to the times but I want read it.

larry the issue stems from the crossing of the line from issues over unlimited immigration to anti foreigner. Personally I believe the free movement of people within the eu is a problem that needs looking at, not just for Britain but all of the eu.

If pro brexit people did make a stand like you're saying it would go a long way. The problem is it's not happening.

Apologies for being off topic, but that dreadful Hitchins piece has to have a response

a disastrous balance of trade and a devastating current account deficit, which measures how much we owe abroad

and the answer is damaging trade with our nearest and largest trade partner?

quantitative easing ... the currency must shrink in value ... and the day when the dollar is worth more than the pound is now in sight

and yet American QE doesn't seem to have had quite the same impact on the USD? Lol. Absolutely fucking clueless.

pastebin.com/mhxJk2Wt

Paris article, for flamingnora

Parris not Paris! ipad thinks it's still in the EU ...

Misti,

Mervyn King, no economics slouch, has also said that a weaker sterling, lower property prices and higher interezt rates were what the BOE were trying to achieve.

The USD, as I am sure you know, is the global reserve currency and, as such, obeys slightly different rules.

Peregrina I totally hear what you are saying and do agree. It seems that some are now stepping forward and saying this isn't what they wanted and it is important we do keep on pointing out what is happening. But it's shame if on a thread where there is a group of people trying to come up with constructive ways to move forward, we let people deliberately distract us yet again to go over the same thing that is on all the other threads and just end up going round in circles again. Fully get you probably don't agree with me.

WW the evidence is clear. If you don't believe it it's up to you to disprove it. Do your own survey then come back and tell us what you've found.

Larry, there is an argument that the pound has had reserve currency status (to a lesser extent than the USD to be sure) but is now trading like an emerging market currency: www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-11/sterling-is-trading-like-an-emerging-market-currency

mirabelle apologies, I agree that we should try to keep on topic.

Join a political party, give money to serious causes (like the A50 court cases).

Back on topic.

misti was it you who mentioned the crowdfunding? Are there any that seem more front runners than others?

Will sick my money where my mouth is and join the Lib Dems too. Sod my initial negativity about them needing to be some more credible. Let's help them.

Do you deny my (very accurate) description of the TrueVision reporting platform? Plus encouragement to report 'crimes' from SJWs?

Also
A statement from the National Police Chiefs’ Council Lead for Hate Crime: Assistant Chief Constable Mark Hamilton clarified that while reporting of hate crimes had risen via an online form, there was no evidence to suggest that this was uniquely related to a Brexit vote, nor that the crimes have actually been committed.

Also
Data from the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) hate crime report showed the number of cases referred to prosecutors decreased from 14,376 in 2014/15 to 12,997 in 2015/16 – a drop of 9.6 per cent.

Thanks Misti.
A good article, I like his corpse kicking analogy. He is right.

They. Don't . Know. What. They. Are. Doing.

I agree about the Lib Dems needing to be more credible however have decided to donate and so has DH We will give DD some money for her birthday to join a party if she would like to and encourage her to think through who that should be. Our constituency was a key marginal in the last election .

I have just emailed Anna Soubry to thank her for mentioning the young last Wednesday.

None of it seems like much but I like most on this thread I think feel that strong urge to do something.

The man in charge of the push-buttons of the economy right now is a remainer and globalist. When the pound fell, who mentioned his interest rate cut? Who was quick to leap on marmite/brexitgate? Carney is talking down the economy himself. Hollande makes a speech - creates a 'flash crash' - and the EU tries to exploit the perceived weakness to make a tough brexit deal. And these are people you think are our friends? Have our best interests at heart?

Of course not. They may decry 'nationalism' but they're behaving in a strongly quasi-nationalistic, protectionist way themselves (vindictive and self destructive too but there we are. )

"It has also occurred to me after listening to Anna Soubry's 'we ignore the youth at our peril' that every month more and more people turn 18 (my own child will shortly). In the 2.5 years between now and October 2019 that is a lot of people. At some point add those of them that would have voted Remain if they had been able to vote to the 16.1 who did vote remain and there will come a time when the the 17.4 who voted Leave become the new minority. "

And there is some evidence that the number of people regretting their leave vote has already tipped the balance in favour of Remain.

There is a huge vacuum of representation currently for all those who wanted to remain and additionally now for all those who voted to leave but who view staying in the single market as a priority.

The crucial thing is what will happen as prices start to rise in the shops over the coming months and people who were already struggling really begin to suffer.

My fear is that people are more likely to seek out scapegoats when times get tough, and with the likes of Arron Banks waiting in the wings to unleash his new populist nationalist movement we could be in for some very bad times indeed.

My hope is that a strong centre group will emerge from the large number of disaffected MPs on both sides which will rein back the government's lurch to the right and a catastrophically hard Brexit before it's too late.

But at the moment with the Tories chanting "the will of the people" at every opportunity and the right wing press calling for remainers to be "silenced" it feels as though the 16 million plus have been completely disenfranchised.

Magikarpet this is the crowdfunding site for the A50 challenge but it looks like they have now reached their target www.crowdjustice.org/case/parliament-should-decide/

TrueVision is nothing more than a quick online form you fill in. It's open to rampant abuse. Considering the massive Project Fear disinformation and misinformation, I bet it has been. Hugely.