Enough is enough

[RBeer]

We are now in the throes of a right wing agenda willing to bring down the country for its own ideological beliefs. Bad things happen when good people do nothing. I for one will stand up so lest my children say I did nothing.

"positive comments from Nissan"

That's a good one. The positive comments came only after they were assured compensation in the event of us leaving the single market.

I'm very much looking forward to my taxes bailing out Sunderland.

It's people phoning up a hotline to report with no evidence required. Remainders can just phone up to report a tweet

And I thought maybe we'd got past the "it's all made up by Remainers" thing, passed through the "they're only minor incidents, nobody was beaten or murdered" stage and moved on to the "it's gone back down, see, what were you worrying about?" phase.

I am watching with interest to see if there are any answers to the topic of the thread what can be done at a grassroots level by people who disavow the xenophobic turn of policy and public discourse

One thing that does strike me is that no progress really has been made over any of the threads post 24 June on MN to brig the huge gap between leavers and remainers. Thread after thread goes the same way and a lot of energy is expended by both sides which goes absolutely nowhere and round and round over and over again.

It seems to me that time would be better spent by not getting sidetracked on threads like these in engaging in arguments but to see if all the energy that exists amongst Remainers can be productively channelled to try and come up with something people can constructively do regarding the question above. Accusations of Fascism are highly annoying and insulting but seem to be a deliberate ploy to distract attention to the very important question this thread asks. Were I of a more cynical nature i'd be thinking that they are a deliberate ploy to distract peoples' attention.

I don't really have any answers on the what to do issue. DH and I have decided this weekend we'll join the valid Dems after seeing them overturn the Conservatives here in on a local level.. I've written to my Leaver MP early on but feel it is time for another letter from me and DH is going to write to tell him how he has seen the Hebrew Congregation building near where he works vandalised for the third or fourth time post Referendum versus versus not at all pre Referendum and ask what he is going to do personally to take a stance against this kind of behaviour,

It has also occurred to me after listening to Anna Soubry's 'we ignore the youth at our peril' that every month more and more people turn 18 (my own child will shortly). In the 2.5 years between now and October 2019 that is a lot of people. At some point add those of them that would have voted Remain if they had been able to vote to the 16.1 who did vote remain and there will come a time when the the 17.4 who voted Leave become the new minority.

I for one will continue discussions with my DD and her friends who feel so devestated by the result and are keen to get involved and encourage them to set something up for their Generation, the new Generation of voters - thoughts on this would be very welcome.

What is it with leftwing control addicts that they think they know what's in other people people's heads? I don't know 'its nonsense deep down'. Of course they report 'abuse' - they would wouldn't they - it's a big remoany echo chamber. I was called racist by an eu colleague - there's an anecdote for you.

So I didn't experience that personally wincester. You are actively calling me a liar?

Of course they report 'abuse' - they would wouldn't they - it's a big remoany echo chamber.

So to clarify, cards on the table, you are categorically stating that reports of racist abuse are if not fabricated then vastly exaggerated?

Demographics will continue to change the mood of the country away from leaving, much as US demographics are making it harder for republicans to win elections.

This is an essentially political question so to me it is evident that the single most important thing you can do is to join a party that is pro Europe, which essentially means the Lib Dems or the Greens. Even if you can't easily get involved in grassroots campaigning, you are contributing money to those who can.

The second is to contribute to one of the crowdfunded legal campaigns.

The pound sterling would have fallen hard and fast if we had voted to stay in the EU. I am amazed it did not do so long before. More than three years ago, before the referendum was called, I advised you to keep an eye on the value of sterling as a true measure of our huge economic difficulties.
Since then they’ve grown worse – enormous state debts, enormous private debts, a disastrous balance of trade and a devastating current account deficit, which measures how much we owe abroad.
Add to that the £435billion of funny money pumped into the economy by the Bank of England since 2009 in so-called ‘quantitative easing’, the smooth modern way of printing cash which is backed by thin air.
If you do these things, the currency must shrink in value, as surely as water will wet you, and as surely as fire will burn.
And now it has. I suspect it will get quite a lot worse, and the day when the dollar is worth more than the pound is now in sight. But currency markets like to wait for their opportunity. My guess is that, on the eve of the referendum, quite a few currency dealers bet heavily on a victory for the Remain campaign (as others did) and bought sterling in the belief that it would rise on the news. But others, more cunning or better informed, wagered the other way.
The resulting turmoil of rapid selling set off the avalanche which followed.
If the vote had gone the other way, then roughly the same thing would have happened by now, perhaps on the announcement of bad economic figures (there are so many, if you’re paying attention).
Everyone who understands the issue knows this. So they should stop saying – and you should stop believing – that the fall of sterling is your fault for voting for national independence.
This decision will have its costs – nothing worth having comes free – but a weaker pound isn’t one of them.
Peter Hitchins 16/10/16

The Greens? Seriously? If you want to guarantee the economic destruction of this country, that is the party for you.

Ok WW if you don't know that it is nonsense you are doing some pretty hard work ignoring the evidence. I was just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. We are not talking about echo chambers. This is real life.

No, of course they told you they were abused - yes the 'sharp rise in hate crime' absolutely exaggerated - as in, not what you're describing.

Did you realise it's also social media? How much of it is simply angry debate (which I'm sure you're familiar with) How much of it is Remainers attacking Brexiteers? How much is made up? How much is exaggerated because people are so pissed off at the result?

No, of course they told you they were abused

You mean they made stuff up to tell Magikarp?

I'm wondering why there is such a huge level of denial on this issue of the abuse.

Gosh magikarpet I am so sorry about everything you and others are going through . Where (roughly) do you live if you don't mind my asking?

In terms of the OP, I think what we can do is carry on writing (often) to politicians of all denominations. They need to know that we won't accept the likes of the kinds of speeches we heard coming from the Tory party conference .

Heartening is the fact that there is cross party opposition (including from the Tory party), and I am hoping that the Tories' small majority, the court cases hopefully ruling that May cannot use the Royal Prerogative, and the obvious incompetence of Fox, Johnson et al, combine to make the centre ground much more appealing for voters and hopefully some defecting MPS! !
At the moment I am massively hoping that there is either a massive swing towards the LibDems on Thursday in Witney.

Ah. Yes democracy in action. When you were threatened physically and told you're scum and not decent enough to share air with people and a benefit scrounger (I'm not btw but apparently it's fair game to shout that at people who don't look British enough) and called all the obligatory racist terms of your other nationality you weren't actually being abused. It's fine to treat people that way. Those bloody lefties just tell you it's wrong. Just suck it up dear

Or victory for them.

So really it is vital to help my DD's generation have a voice and be heard in this - especially as they were denied a voice in this huge decision, despite needing to earn tax from 16 if they earn sufficient amounts. That's back to the whole Taxation without Representation is Tyranny issue as an aside.

How can we older Remainers help those newly turning 18 who strongly identify with the Remain side to make their voices heard in an effective way?

kaija it's not hard to work out why - it's because the evidence doesn't support it. HTH.

(That was about the LibDems on Thursday).

cross thank you. I don't have it as bad as my neighbours and other people at least. It did seem to be going down but there was a bit of resurgence this weekend. To the point where a poor man who happened to ask someone where something was in the supermarket in Scottish accent got a load of stick. I live on the Essex borders. Very very pro brexit round this way.

I'm with you. I basically wrote a comment piece to the Guardian saying just this (not that my writing is any good, just I wanted get those feelings out there to a wider audience). They ignored the email but the sentiment is there!

WW if you doubt it, rather than denying it on social media you would do well to go and talk to some EU nationals and ask them their experiences over the last 5 or 6 months. You might find it enlightening.

I'm wondering why there is such a huge level of denial on this issue of the abuse.

Probably because in modern society it is one of the "red lines" of genuinely beyond the pale behaviour. So it is of vital importance to your core identity as a good human being, and as part of a group of good human beings (better than that group over there), that this red line is not crossed by any members of that group.

It's particularly weird to see when somebody (not thinking about any particular poster but a general observation of the wider world) is happy to express essentially xenophobic or racist views, but balks in horror at any attempt to place a label on those views ("Don't call me racist"). The offence if the label is greater than the offence of the originating sentiment.

I imagine in centuries past there would have been different red lines ("Don't call me atheist" perhaps?).

Yes that seem a very good analysis.

Seems