I really don't understand what you are all talking about!

[Corcory]

I keep reading how upset people are with the speeches at the conservative party conference and what TM has said and what she intends to do. I keep hearing about all the xenophobia and racism in the conservative party.
Someone on another thread talked about TM's ' citizen of the world' speech and how aghast they were. What exactly are you talking about?
I really feel too many people are reading headlines or taking parts of speeches out of context and spinning them way beyond the truth.
So many of the posters on here are EU citizens and are becoming ever more frightened by the rhetoric . I really don't think it is at all fair to hype this all up and frighten people. I absolutely abhor any racist taunts or comments that too many people have had thrown at them. That sort of attitude must be called out and stamped on straight away.
But winding things up with untruths isn't helping.
The last time I brought up the fact that 'quotes' from the party speeches were inaccurate I was told in no uncertain terms I was being patronizing!

Good post whatwouldrondo.

As far as I am concerned, although I didn't vote for it, if there is a case for Brexit, it will stand up to robust debate. The fact that there are attempts to stifle this debate tells its own story.

Not completing misunderstanding Elements, but maybe altering a bit.

Ok, I do sound a bit like I am shrugging my shoulders. But I didn't mean to. What I was trying to say was that this sort of forum discussion make us all aware that we all have differing viewpoints, so in that respect they are enlightening, but they don't tend to change people's opinions, so become an endless back and forth that usually just leads to anger and frustration. People dig in a defend their viewpoint and it becomes even more 'them' and 'us' which is no good.

It's no surprise the Express is saying it's usual bollocks. Their job is to stir up extreme and polarised viewpoints to sell papers (as all papers do). If you object to these tactics, boycott the paper. If everyone did this, theydstop having an influence. People seem to love to be outraged, which is why these papers sell.

I think we would do better if we
1)kept the faith that we are still a decent society despite what is happening
2) acted from that starting point to discuss, campaign, pressurise, vote and so on but with an open mind

I know it sounds naive, but I don't know how else to express it.

Which demographic does the Daily Express appeal to? Is it a group which tends not to vote? If so, their scurrilous comments won't provoke outrage.

I think we have to do more that 'keep the faith that we are a decent society'. We have to go out and show it, and show that this racism and xenophobia isn't being done in our names.

Who is to say that we haven't got open minds? I have personally not heard any Government Brexit spokesperson say anything sensible yet, but when they do, I would be happy to discuss their argument.

Take Theresa May's obsession with cutting immigration, when we have a skills shortage. She could have couched a debate in the need for a systematic survey of where skills shortages exist, and how best to fill them. For some skills, it could be offering more apprenticeships to young people, to others it could only mean employing staff from elsewhere - I don't know if Jeremy Hunt has noticed, but hospital Consultants don't usually get their first Consultancy until they are about 35, so there will be no question of plugging that particular gap within less than 15-20 years. The debate need not have been couched at all as "Let's train more British, so we can kick out the foreigners".

Express. Older voters. Middle class. Not university educated, but often better educated than tabloid readership. Support Conservatives / UKIP.

Which demographic does the Daily Express appeal to? Is it a group which tends not to vote?
As Red says, older, middle class types. The type that thinks the young could afford to buy a house if they didn't spend their money on iphones. They are very much the type to vote and tend to vote Tory/UKIP.

Express readers engagement dismissed despite over 2 million more persons voting in the referendum than would usually vote.

And, what 'race' are we referring to, precisely, when we call 'racism'?

MNnomore - what 'race' are we referring to, precisely, when we call 'racism'?

I think, as far as the Express is concerned, they are anti anyone foreign, including people of the same race as the British. I, personally, would describe the Express as primarily xenophobic, with racism thrown in for good measure.

Their headlines seem to go: xenophobia, xenophobia, weather, Maddy McCann, Princess Diana, xenophobia (in no particular order).

Looking at the images of the Express, one of those mentions Madeleine McCann and dates from the year she disappeared, which was 2007, I think. So they have been spewing out their poisonous bile for almost 10 years (actually probably 80). So let's not pretend it was just in response to the Referendum. It's been drip, drip, drip.

Corcory - you seem upset that xenophobic statements are being perceived as xenophobic.

It's not the people calling it out who are the problem here. It's the xenophobia itself that should be the more troubling.

I am always happy to hear the Brexit point of view. Plenty of Brexit voters were not voting for a better economic future but for other reasons and there is nothing wrong with putting principle above money. I think they are wrong but it is good to hear their views.

It will be interesting to hear today if anyone is tweeting from the High Court how the hearing over the Article 50 case goes.