I really don't understand what you are all talking about!

[Corcory]

I keep reading how upset people are with the speeches at the conservative party conference and what TM has said and what she intends to do. I keep hearing about all the xenophobia and racism in the conservative party.
Someone on another thread talked about TM's ' citizen of the world' speech and how aghast they were. What exactly are you talking about?
I really feel too many people are reading headlines or taking parts of speeches out of context and spinning them way beyond the truth.
So many of the posters on here are EU citizens and are becoming ever more frightened by the rhetoric . I really don't think it is at all fair to hype this all up and frighten people. I absolutely abhor any racist taunts or comments that too many people have had thrown at them. That sort of attitude must be called out and stamped on straight away.
But winding things up with untruths isn't helping.
The last time I brought up the fact that 'quotes' from the party speeches were inaccurate I was told in no uncertain terms I was being patronizing!

justchanged , I have lived abroad. I lived in America for several years, so have a degree of understanding of the situation. I never felt like I had a right to stay there, but that is probably because we were on a fixed term visa, so didn't have that expectation. If we had applied for a green card , we may have felt differently. But I would say that I never felt offended that I was called an immigrant - it was a fact. We paid taxes, had certain priveleged through employment, but weren't allowed to vote in elections. If we'd committed a offense, we would have been sent home. We queued in different lines at the airport etc etc. It all made sense to me. We weren't American and accepted that.

But my son was born there and has automatic American citizenship, which throws up some interesting points. He is British by descent but won't be able to pass that on to his children unless he has children with a British woman. So identity is a hot topic in this household.

fairies My husband is British, my children were born here and have dual nationality. I have a European passport, and if I want to obtain British nationality/passport I need a permanent residents permit first. For that I need to provide six years worth of documents, including proof of days away from UK for the last six years, bank statements, etc. I have been paying into a work pension for years, now I have no idea what's going to happen to those savings if I decide to leave.

My objection to the term "migrant" as juxtaposed to "expat" when referring to British people who live in other countries. It's now accepted that "expat" describes white wealthy people, while the connotations of "migrant" are " dark skinned and poor". That's been accepted for years and the British press make the distinction knowingly.

www.independent.co.uk/news/theresa-may-racist-policies-xenophobic-crackdown-foreigners-list-ukip-roger-helmer-a7351716.html

If it hadn't been for free movement I would not have bothered studying in the UK and staying on to form a career. I have always been in love with the English language (went to an American nursery) and studying in an English speaking environment seemed natural to me. If the UK had demanded complicated visa application and a green card type of situation, I would have gone to the US or Canada instead. The only reason I stayed on in the UK was the international vibe of London where I have met many like minded people citizens of the world and feel privileged to have made these connections. I now work in a specialised, academic field. I feel I am contributing in terms of my abilities and, of course, I am a high tax payer. If I had lived in the US i would have been comfortable being treated as an immigrant and I would have made the choice whether to put up with that or not. It's different in the UK because I live here as a EU citizen not an immigrant. My quality of life would be higher in my country of origin. Healthcare and public provisions such as maternity leave and others are more generous. To those who think "fuck off to your home country then" it's not so easy. I have formed my career here, my partner is British as are my dc. My partner would not be able to work in my home country as he doesn't speak the language. My dc don't speak my mother tongue very well. If i tried teaching them my native language I would probably be racially abused when out and about. I actually try not to speak in my mother tongue with my dc on the playground or school run now as I am worried that people will think "there is an EU migrant, she and her dc are taking our school places, abusing the NHS". Funnily, I lived in the UK for 10 years paying taxes before I even went to visit the GP, I used the brilliant health care in my country instead. Strange times indeed.

pears that's exactly it, we came here as EU citizens! I have always spoken to my children in my language and they're fully bilingual. Most people where I live in London don't think is strange at all, they think it's normal and there are many languages spoken in both my children's schools. The only criticism I've ever had has been from some members of my husband's family who live out of London, in a very homogeneous white English area. They think I should speak English to my children. It's only now that I feel very conscious of speaking another language in public, for the first time.

First of all I certainly don't think there is no racism or xenophobia as was suggested up thread. There most certainly is otherwise how can you explain some of the dreadful things that have happened to people since the referendum.
Someone else suggested I am a xenophobe again! why? because I would like to see a different type of immigration control?
Again we have TM's mention of 'international elites' in her speech. Let me reiterate the sentence in the speech was ' too many people in positions of power behave as though they have more in common with international elites'. Where people get the idea that this applies to them I don't understand.
toptoe - you seem to have made up your mind about the Tories long ago. I will only say that the Tories have reduced income tax and have taken many low paid people out of the income tax threshold completely.
Elements - you say leavers are sneering, name calling and dismissing on this thread. If you can see any of this at all please point it out because I can't. I can also not see anywhere you are being laughed at jaws.

I think the 'hysteria' has been whipped up by the media, especially the Daily Mail, Express etc. they have a lot to answer for but I would also say is that I very much doubt the contributors to these threads are influenced by these papers. The winding up of the whole situation on here is certainly not due to these papers per say. It is more down to social media and the types of picture we saw of TM illustrated as a brown shirt, liking the Tory party to Nazis, calling them Fascists and the total misunderstanding of the words racist and xenophobe.

It is more than a little unfortunate that people are caught up in this change in immigration rules that will come in here in the UK due to the vote to leave the EU. I can understand you are all very anxious about it.
It's great that you all felt so 'at home' in the UK and hopefully you will feel this way again when our exit from the EU is sorted out.

OP - I said the other thread.

Which other thread?

The thread "If this isn't what you voted for..." which I referred to in my post to which you replied

The main take home message from the Tory conference was that they were going to reduce immigration and they were willing to leave the single market to do this. Leaving the single market will have severe and unpredictable consequences for our economy, will risk many jobs and likely force many households onto the breadline. That, to me, is xenophobic- that our government are so scared of "foreigners" they would risk turning us into an economic basket case to stop them entering the country. It's illogical, and based entirely on appealing to predjudice. You should not be gambling on people's jobs and livelihoods unless you have incontrovertible proof that this will result in a better future for the country. There is far too much at stake. This is why I saw it as highly xenophobic- no rational arguments were presented, rather an undercurrent that we could solve our current problems by getting rid of anyone foreign. It all felt like scapegoating (hence the nazi references).

It is never a good thing when a society blames all its ills on one group of people.

Bolshy - The entire point of the change in immigration policy is to do with leaving the EU. That is what the government feels is the main reason many people voted to leave. A change in immigration policy is hardly a xenophobic act far from it. It also has nothing at all to do with any hate of foreigners. The vast majority of people from the UK are known for their very tolerant views as has been shown in these threads when so many people say how welcome they have been here. The government hasn't suddenly decided to hate foreigners and they certainly aren't scared of foreigners why on earth should they?
No one in government ever said we should get rid of all foreigners - you did. That's exactly what I mean. You are a very good example of exactly what I have been complaining about and why I started this thread.

Elements - apologies for my misunderstanding. I hadn't read the posts on that thread from this morning.

It is more than a little unfortunate that people are caught up in this change in immigration rules that will come in here in the UK due to the vote to leave the EU. I can understand you are all very anxious about it.
You do realise, Corcory, that many leave voters were only interested in limiting immigration or 'getting rid' of immigrants? So, how could real living, breathing people not be 'caught up' in any rule changes? When you voted leave you must have realised that there would be extensive collateral damage. You played your part in that by voting alongside BNP, NF, EDL and the likes. I'm sure your reasons were different from theirs/more honourable etc., but I find it very hard to believe that you weren't aware that EU migrants would be considerably affected by the vote.

Corcory - do you think Govts should be making policy on what they feel people think? Shouldn't they be trying to find out what they actually think? Or basing policy on what is good for the country?

The Government made a manifesto commitment to support the Single Market. They won a slim majority last year, so they can say they have a mandate for that. Where is their mandate for ditching that and for curbing immigration instead - knowing as they must, that a hate campaign against foreigners was whipped up by Farage?

peregrina furthermore, TM tried to rewrite history as if we had forgotten that what she referred to as overwhelming popular say on immigration, "the country has spoken loud and clear" was, in fact, a 52% who voted on leaving the EU and a 48% Remain in the EU. There was no explicit question on immigration or the single market on the ballot paper.

...and the "overwhelming" result was in fact a country divided in half

Peregrin, They have found out what they actually think haven't they? To leave the EU.

Or by 'the public' do you mean you and people like you?

Wellthatsit. I assume that your ballot paper had the question:

Do you want to curb immigration? Yes/No

So until you can tell me that this is what 52% voted for, I will continue to express an opinion. You are at liberty to disagree without the unnecessary rudeness just displayed.

I listened to the speeches, Corcory, that was what they implied. It was the uneccessary nature of it that made my spidey senses go. You want to train up more doctors- brilliant! Everyone will be happy with this. There is no need to then state that this is so the NHS will be self-sufficient (which is also patent bollocks, but hey). This implies you want to replace the non-British workforce. Why would you say state this unless you're trying to appeal to the xenophobic part of society that don't like doctors with accents? There were no positives, no real policies in the speeches (bar new doctors and grammar schools), just lots of blaming other people (elites, labour, foreign workers, businesses).

As for the general public, I wish I shared your optimism. I grew up in the semi-rural West Country, where a lot of people hold xenophobic and outright racist views. Not all, but a lot. When I left the West Country for university, I thought it was just a local thing. Apparently not. I think the referendum has exposed us as the petty-minded, racist country that we always were outside of the city centres. This is certainly how the rest of the world now sees us. I am indescribably sad about this as I had hoped that things had changed in the years since I left home.

You want to train up more doctors- brilliant! Everyone will be happy with this

Absolutely. So what stopped them before?

Well, quite.

Hasn't Jeremy Hunt thought of this great idea before? I think it's great to provide training for more doctors, make it affordable, open it up and treat them decently once they are trained. Everything else said at the conference had the only purpose of exploiting the xenophobia exposed by the referendum.

two pieces of anecdotal evidence, from the last few days.

1.A close friend and colleague of my husband, who is a EU national, was fined when he was fishing and asked for his license, which had recently expired. He is now terrified and having a nervous breakdown because of fears after Amber Rudd's speech. Before this, he would have paid the fine and learned to keep his license in check, that's all.

1. Another EU friend went to a DIY store at the weekend and asked for something in centimetres. the owner of the shop told her that "here in England we use Imperial, didn't you know?". He claimed not no understand metric.

He claimed not to understand metric. Farcical - what measurements were given on the side of the package?