I really don't understand what you are all talking about!

[Corcory]

I keep reading how upset people are with the speeches at the conservative party conference and what TM has said and what she intends to do. I keep hearing about all the xenophobia and racism in the conservative party.
Someone on another thread talked about TM's ' citizen of the world' speech and how aghast they were. What exactly are you talking about?
I really feel too many people are reading headlines or taking parts of speeches out of context and spinning them way beyond the truth.
So many of the posters on here are EU citizens and are becoming ever more frightened by the rhetoric . I really don't think it is at all fair to hype this all up and frighten people. I absolutely abhor any racist taunts or comments that too many people have had thrown at them. That sort of attitude must be called out and stamped on straight away.
But winding things up with untruths isn't helping.
The last time I brought up the fact that 'quotes' from the party speeches were inaccurate I was told in no uncertain terms I was being patronizing!

[surferjet]

The public is becoming hysterical

Absolutely - it's cringing to watch.

[titchy]

I think it's quite naive of you OP to think TM genuinely only wanted to refer to the Philip Greens of the world. It was one of the biggest platforms since the vote and she knew exactly how what she said would be interpreted. Exactly.

TM set out her stall when she was Home Secretary - she is clearly pro-Brexit and always was. She just said she voted Remain because she thought that would be the winning side - as did BJ et al.

[Bearbehind]

The public might well be becoming hysterical in some parts but it was exactly the same tact of preying on people's fears that got the vote through in the first place.

It's not inconceivable that that is exactly what the government is doing now, except they are generally so fucking inept you'd hardly believe they were capable, therefore it could just be they really don't have a clue and this is the absolute fuck up it appears to be but the end result is the same.

[Peregrina]

Peregrina - was the 'we can help you go home' van slogan not aimed at illegal immigrants?

Yes, it most definitely was, and was also spectacularly unsuccessful. But again, it's perception which matters. Immigrants go home = immigrants are a bad thing.

Bear in mind what it said - 'Go home or face arrest', Not 'We can help you go home'. (That might have been in the small print.)

As for the Hitler references - with the benefit of hindsight people said, why didn't the German people see what was happening and put a stop to it? When they did wake up, for many, it was too late. Some of us feel that we are on the same slippery slope as Germany was and want to learn from that hindsight.

I wouldn't crow too soon surferjet - you might find yourself in one of the 'undesirable' categories.

[Justchanged]

Corcory, I agree that there were some who supported Brexit on the basis that Britain should have trade deals with the whole world, rather than through the EU, and which therefore could be seen as outward looking. However, this was not evident during the conference. Where in the whole conference did the Conservatives speak to the wider world to show that Britain was open for business?

May spoke about immigrants taking jobs from native British as though it was an established fact, and not a prejudice. Rudd said that they'd consider requiring firms to draw up lists of foreign workers. More training spaces were promised for the NHS, not because having more doctors is a good thing (which I agree it is) but so that there would be less 'foreign' doctors, though for an interim period, some foreigners would still be needed and so could stay. How does this feel outward-looking?

Maybe this is naiveity by May as to how this would be interpreted. However, caveats such as - we didn't mean all 'citizens of the world' only those who are company bosses - or of course, we meant only low-skilled immigrants not all immigrants - don't get away from an overall tone that felt hostile to foreigners - even those who have lived here a long time. From reading the papers, I am hardly unique in this interpretation.

[CoteDAzur]

" I think I am correct in sating that currency trading is all done by computer these days, using algorithms which look for positive or negative media headlines to bet on currency."

No, you are not correct. You are actually wrong.

I'm guessing that you have never met a currency trader. They are human beings.

[twofingerstoGideon]

Corcory As Peregrina says, May is an experienced politician. She used the words 'foreign-born' in a manner that implied these people are inferior and only good for plugging a gap in services (eg the NHS) for as long as we need them. My DD is 'foreign-born'. Do you think she and I will not be hurt by terminology like that?

Mollie, in response to your assertion that In a nutshell - you have no right to call anyone who voted Leave - as ignorant, bigoted, xenophobic or fascist - that is insulting and hateful. I have no right to call everyone who voted Leave those names, but I do have a right to call the members of Britain First, NF, BNP, EDL etc who voted leave all of those things. I also have a right to use those words to describe the people who have carried out racist attacks, and to express an opinion that May/Rudd et al should not be jumping on that particular bandwagon.

[Corcory]

Justchanged - you see, again you have illustrated my point. At no stage in his speech did the health sec. say anything about foreign doctors or mention them at all.

[twofingerstoGideon]

The public is becoming hysterical

You think this has only manifested itself recently? And only by people who support remain? Do give over.

[twofingerstoGideon]

At no stage in his speech did the health sec. say anything about foreign doctors or mention them at all. May did.

Asked whether she [May] could reassure foreign NHS staff they were welcome to stay for now, she said: “Yes. There will be staff here from overseas in that interim period – until the further number of British doctors are able to be trained and come on board in terms of being able to work in our hospitals.
link
There really isn't much room for ambiguity in that statement.

[Justchanged]

Hunt said that "Currently a quarter of our doctors come from overseas.....But looking forward, is it right to carry on importing doctors from poorer countries that need them, whilst we turn away bright home graduates desperate to study medicine?..... Of course it will take a number of years before those students qualify, but by the end of the next parliament we will make the NHS self-sufficient in doctors."

Is this not mentioning foreign doctors? Whilst it is great to increase training places, why did Hunt need to say that this will be done to reduce the proportion of overseas doctors in the NHS?

Anyway, please would you point to the outward looking aspects of the Tory party conference where the rest of the world - including Europe - was welcomed?

[TheElementsSong]

Maybe the only fair conclusion is that everybody has interpreted these government announcements wrongly according to their own personal bias!

So maybe nobody can say either that these are portents of doom as we are marched into a dystopian hellhole or that everything's coming up roses and all opponents are just hysterical cowards.

So we should just all stop talking and take up competitive tiddlywinks instead.

[titchy]

Don't forget Rudd's proposal to virtually decimate the numbers of overseas students. What with all their money to spend on our economy the weaselly buggers.

That will include EU students.

[InfiniteSheldon]

OP I agree the hysteria around the referendum result is becoming laughable. That speech was excellent.

[WidowWadman]

And more apologism and disdain at xenophobic utterances being called xenophobic. At least own what you are. If your issue is with freedom of movement, it means you want to restrict it to the privileged.

Even if you have nothing against individual immigrants as people, the very fact that you think that immigration needs to be restricted is a direct rejection. It says directly "you shouldn't have been allowed to come here, build your life here, become part of the community". How should I as an immigrant not take that personally? If you don't think I should have been allowed to come here, how can you claim you've nothing against me?

Btw the Enoch Powell comparison came from a TM fan who actually said it was great she spoke like EP.

[surferjet]

The tories are terrified that Nigel Farage will come back ( & he will if Brexit doesn't go to plan ) they have to appeal to UKIP voters to stay in power & they know it.

[TheElementsSong]

titchy We have been puzzling about this too, it's like an attack on the universities as well as on what was one of our best-regarded exports.

Perhaps if we look at it strictly from the perspective that keeping incomers to a minimum is the absolute priority? There would be two-fold effects: first, a reduction in the raw numbers of immigrants (I've never understood why they counted students in those numbers!) and second, studying here is a gateway for many to end up staying... not illegally, but because they get offered jobs (subtext: at the expense of indigenous people therefore Bad) and/or because they meet and get into a relationship with somebody here (subtext: something grubby and sexual, sleeping their way in with shades of Mata Hari, maybe for extremists even distaste at miscegenation)...

Just speculation - from the perspective of being an immigrant who first arrived as an overseas student.

[crazycatguy]

It is important that it is neither racist nor xenophobic to wish to reduce immigration, nor leave the EU. However given the single theme of immigration promoted by Leave, it would be accurate to say that all racists and xenophobes did vote Leave. No racist worth their salt would vote Remain!

[WidowWadman]

Why is it actually not xenophobic to wish to reduce immigration? I know that claim keeps being made, but in what way is it not xenophobic to want less foreigners to enter?

[Me2017]

This is all just talk for various audiences by all parties and my leavers and remainers at the moment.

We need to look at deeds not words.

I am sure most of us would like us to use British doctors. We have all suffered the foreign health professional we cannot understand because their English isn't good enough never mind the BT Indian call centre worker we cannot understand. This is not racism. It's about wanting more British doctors rather than importing them. However training more of our own is not going to happen over night if it happens at all. No one needs to panic.

The Tories as much as Labour are split over Brexit. Haf the Tories were remainers (as am I). Now we just have to make the best of it.

As there won't be a general election until 2020 I would not bother too much about pleasing the public for the moment if I were in Government and I would just concentrate on getting down to business. We will probably serve the Art 50 notice by Easter and then the clock is ticking so all the major issues to be sorted out will need tbe tackled from then over the following 2 years. It's a very tight timescale.

[TheElementsSong]

I am sure most of us would like us to use British doctors. We have all suffered the foreign health professional we cannot understand because their English isn't good enough

Actually, some of us would like good doctors, wherever they may hail from. Also applies to experts in other fields. Furthermore I don't see that being a foreigner correlates with poor English if that's what you're implying.

[titchy]

Damn Canadians and their inability of speak English. Oh, wait...

As there won't be a general election until 2020

Not sure I'd be THAT certain there'll be no GE. Trade negotiations won't be done in two years either.

[Peregrina]

I am sure most of us would like us to use British doctors.
Speak for yourself. The worst doctors I have had were British. Absolutely nothing wrong with their standard of English but both their diagnostic skills and bedside manners were woefully deficient.

The two best doctors were a Ugandan Asian and an New Zealander. The Ugandan spoke English with an RP accent, and was a perfect gentleman to boot. The Kiwi spoke with a New Zealand accent, as you would expect. Both were highly competent.

[jaws5]

Absolutely disagree op. I listened and watched the conference live and grew increasingly horrified from the moment foreign doctors were mentioned. I will not explain or go into why, as I started the "xenophobia" thread soon after. In fact the media you blame took too long in my opinion to challenge this rhetoric as it deserved. I am an educated person and a EU citizen (won't call myself migrant as that's a loaded term, as I have explained elsewhere) and totally capable of interpreting May, Rudd and Fox's threats. The only similarities I see are those coming from extreme right wing parties in Europe, but they're not in power and hopefully will never be.

[jaws5]

And every single one of my intelligent, cultured and liberal European friends living in the UK feels the same. In fact, it is quite offensive to be called "hysterical". If you want to close your eyes to what is happening and turn your back on others, it is your right to do so, but you may one day find yourselves in a similar situation. "First they came for the socialists, but I wasn't one...".