If this isn't what you voted for stand up and be counted!

[WidowWadman]

So all those Brexiteers and Lexiters who didn't vote on the basis of immigration controls, where are you? Will there be marches against May's interpretation of your vote?

You know, I actually believe that plenty of people didn't realise what their vote was going to unleash despite being warned frequently and emphatically. It's not too late to speak out and stand up against it. If you didn't mean it, don't hide behind that you haven't meant it. Do something about it.

Pro-tip: declaring xenophobic things to be not xenophobic, actually is not speaking out against it or distancing yourself from it. Declaring hurt at being lumped in with the xenophobes without outright condemnation of their rhetoric doesn't count as standing up to it. Much the opposite.

smallfox I have not attacked you, just commented on the tone of some of your posts. Your continued inaccurate responses don't help your cause, you know?

Ask a proper question. Leave out the hyperbole. Stop being so damned combative. Maybe someone will bother to respond seriously!

Well I'd agree there blanche..

But it's all in the interpretation and the media scaremongering reports.

Your interpretation of what May is doing is "johnny foreigner out". Others interpretations may include that she is simply falling into line with what other EU countries do anyway.

To your first one..

How are my posts in accurate?

Here's a question then.

For those who wanted to leave because of immigration. What reasons do you give?

For those who wanted democracy and sovereignty how can you back May's current proposed course of action?

Both of which I have answered on this thread - the first, along with many others, on many other threads. I didn't vote because of immigration!

Your continued repetition, as though you have received no answers is daft. The reality is you have received many answers, you just don't like them!

Oh, and I don't think it is the right question to get the information you might actually want? As you keep asking it it reads quite like "Sir, when did you stop beating your wife?"

Theresa May has been very clear that she believes that foreigners, such as myself, in today's immigration context in the UK, have made CLOSE TO ZERO contribution. July 2015:

“While there are benefits of selective and controlled immigration, at best the net economic and fiscal effect of high immigration is close to zero. So there is no case, in the national interest, for immigration of the scale we have experienced over the last decade.”

There is not much space for interpretation in that statement. And this statement is clear. This is her view, which is contrary to many fiscal experts - but we are tired of experts so let's just blame immigrants instead.

Blanche, smallfox clearly says 'For those who wanted to leave because of immigration. What reasons do you give?' (my bold)

She isn't talking to you on that point. Why are you taking personal umbrage?

Can you answer the second question? I'm genuinely interested.

Given that 60% of the UK population are net takers with just 40% being net givers that doesn't say quite what you, understandably, read into it - or what she wanted you to! In full context it means that Johnny Foreigner is probably doing better than your average Born and Bred!

As for scale of immigration, that is crux of it, for some. Why should we have an almost fully open door? Why can we not choose to say no... or only if these circumstances are met? Other countries have just such policies... why is it only racist for the UK to want the same?

Answer: It isn't but it is being hyped that way; is bloody scary if you are a foreign national; is being made to sound even scarier by many people with their own agenda and may or may not be what most Leavers voted for - depending on whether you ask a Racist Gobshite or a Normal Person who happens to disagree with you!

Blanche then you are exactly who the thread is aimed at.

Why did you vote the way you did, and do you feel different about it now that there appears to be a very negative strain towards immigrants and immigration as a whole??

Can you answer the second question? I'm genuinely interested.

Smallfox has asked me, and many others, that question a few times, on other threads, I have given much the same answer every time: a) I have never previously said how I voted; b) taking a step back and reading all responses the usual reasons seem to be as those I gave in my previous post!

As for the second, I did answer it when I responded to Scared What are you doing about it? What is smallfox doing about it? Are you politically active in any way?

smallfox I am really not sure why you say that? Have you read my post or just strained out a few words? My opinions are fairly obvious, I would have thought, just from the capitalisation!

I am, I organised the remain campaign in my London borough, thanks, we won, far more convincingly than predicted.

Did you? I can see why you are so fervent about it. You may have said that before, but I did hide quite a few of the previous threads!

I support people on very low incomes, volunteer in a foodbank, work with immigrants, supporting them through the maze of paperwork they need to get just about anything they may need. I have done so for about 20 years... through many nationalities and distinct issues.

I have posted about it all quite a bit on various threads.

I work i the food bank too :), also do volunteer work using my subject specialism for international women's charities.

So, might it be safe to suggest that we may have some common ideas about lots of things, but see Brexit very differently?

Even then I dare say we agree on a lot, just not on some possible long term solutions. I suspect that 20 years ago, when working with Asian women and setting up coffee shops for Asian men (much more effective than trying to shepherd them into a woman's office) I too would have been horrified and seen Brexit as an attack on each and every one of the clients.

Later, working with Eastern Europeans I would have started to disagree, mainly because of their habit of living 5 in a 2 bed house and sending both earnings and benefits back to their home countries. That happened a lot, still does. Then again, so very many more came, took shit jobs, upgraded their qualifications and took up their careers as engineers, lawyers etc. But that influx in the early 2000s was a bit of an eye opener!

Now we work with a lot more immigrants who arrive with little or no English, no papers and no intention of cooperating with us. Many stonewall us until the machine churns and they get housed. It is very hard to tell who does so out of fear... but when/if we do get a break through there are so very many lovely people who actually need very little help over and above language classes.

But there are so very, very many of them and the tiny rural town and surrounding area is past saturation point. In all honesty, the local tide is turning, the most heard language on the streets is not English and many locals are feeling the pinch in local services, which have not grown to match the most recent influx.

Something has to change or most immigrants will be shovelled into wholly unsatisfactory positions, poorly supported, misunderstood and soundly berated by small minded Born and Bred idiots!

So I may not be the immigrant hating Brexiteer you imagine me to be!

OurBlanche and Small - Hats off to you ladies how refreshing.

Why thank you! I should add that I also have my own business, have always had a full time job, so all of the above is only a few hours a week. I don't do much when compared to some of the other volunteers and paid workers.

Blanche, do you think the removal of the immigration fund in 2010 has made a big difference to your area?

Mmm! I'm not sure we ever saw any of it, I think it mostly went on police and CAB and little trickled its way out of cities, where multi lingual skills are usually less asily come by . We have always relied (ironically) on Lottery and EU match funding, our linguists come from within the community and, evcen though we are part funded by and annexed to an NHS initiative or 3, we are too far down the food chain, I think?

Did you notice its entrance or exit?

Blanche interesting posts, thanks for your perspective. I live in a small town completely different to yours, and see immigration as a good thing, but recognise the population is growing and it's affecting some areas. I have friends though, live nearby in a large city and voted leave on immigration issue, and feel they can see pressure on housing. No way are they racist.

When you say you are coming across people with no intention of co-operating with you, do you mean learning English/job applications? I think that has always been the case, I remember complaints about the Asian community doing the same, but see it wasn't your experience.

didn't mean to make that sound that the Asian community didn't learn English or work hard; not heard this for a long time, but colleagues at work used to complain they didn't integrate, citing hearing them speak in their own language outside the school etc.

I know people feel the problems with housing are down to immigration. It the fact is that it's due to the fact that we have under built significantly for 30 years. In most years by 100 000 dwellings !

Yes. Feelings are a lot to do with it.

I remember a colleague saying they were told to wait in the 1950s to be housed, as the immigrants and asylum seekers had to be accommodated before them. She felt extremely resentful, nothing would have changed her mind, as it was her experience. It's been an issue with anti-feeling immigration long before the Eastern Europeans starting arriving.

It's such a toxic issue, given that our population is increasing by 200,000 people every 8 months, great for the economy as the majority of them are working, and working hard, paying taxes, there has to be commitment to provide for everyone....

I know people feel the problems with housing are down to immigration. It the fact is that it's due to the fact that we have under built significantly for 30 years. In most years by 100 000 dwellings !

I agree with this.

LuLu I think you may have misunderstood!

I too see immigration as a good thing, but recognise that the current situation is unsupportable andf that some unpalatable changes must be made in order to support both all sections of the population. Even here there are ever growing signs of overcrowding. Where almost all new families could be given a 2-bed property we are now talking to families living in one room. We are very rural, we don't have those levels of overcrowding, ever! Now developments are being proposed on land that is totally unsutable for housing, flood plains, marsh land, places that have a single road that crosses the river, traffic is already at a standstill at various bottlenecks, making rural communities even more isolated - and there is no way to remedy that, at least no one is offering the multi billion pound it would take!

Now we don't even have the seasonal work to support them, that too is flooded! So even with the proposed extra housing locls, immigrants, refugees alike would be stuck in rural backwaters with no jobs and an infrastrcuture that is being dismantled - despite a 30% population growth we have no more schools, GPs or public transport...

Despite our best efforts we are now treating immigrants and refugees far less well than the local population, as second class citizens. We cannot continue to do that.

When you say you are coming across people with no intention of co-operating with you, do you mean learning English/job applications? Yes, that has been the case, sadly.

I think that has always been the case, I remember complaints about the Asian community doing the same Yes, even back in the 1970s when their needs were not being met and , because of the sudden influx and suspicion on both sides many women remained secluded, almost invisible - my great aunt was a midwife and was part of the folic acid suplemented chappati delivery service! Sounds extremey patronising now, but was at least a step n the right direction.

but see it wasn't your experience. That is where I think we may be talking at cross purposes Out here in the boonies it is not at all unusual to walk through small towns and even some of the larger villages and never hear unaccented English, most street conversations seem not to be in English, it can sometimes catch you unaware!

It is an incredibly toxic situation. Many people feel they cannot express their dismay/disagreement without being called racist, others that racists are taking over and we are becomng an ever more facist country.

Sorry, that was a bit of a rambling rant!