Xenophobia: Brexit official discourse

[jaws5]

Hearing one minister after another at the Tory conference today has made me feel ill: So foreign doctors are welcome UNTIL more British doctors have been trained in a hurry, foreigners will be treated as second class citizens when applying for a job, and EU nationals are one of the "main cards" in Brexit negotiations. I cannot imagine any other country in the world where the official discourse of the governing party would include these statements without it being condemned as xenophobic. Shame on them.

Sorry Red, Obvioulsy I have been missing a point there.

Green, as an outsider, this feeling of entitlement and superiority is very clear to me. I would have said that as 'Britain still thinks they are a huge emigre and rule the world. They've missed that things have changed. They have no empire and are just a very small country of 60 millions people with not that much power on a world pov.

I'm Italian, I'm not bothered at all. I think everyone is a bit hysterical.

At my local H&M, for example, the Eastern European staff are excellent. They are really meticulous and professional and very helpful. And they seem more clued in than some of the British girls working there.

You're comparing apples with oranges though. Recent immigrants typically take jobs for which they are overqualified. So it's not surprising that their productivity is better. It's more a question of education (and perhaps of cultural attitudes towards education) than of work ethic.

I do not want to go into the supermarket where all the staff have East European accents. And don't tell me those jobs couldn't be done by British people.

"It is not nasty name-calling to object to this sort of discriminatory language. It is a by-product of the anonymity offered by sites like this. "

Figment I agree with you.

But also the level of education of people in Poland for example is much higher than here.
I lived in Poland for a while. Telling that someone has issue with reading and written is the worst insult ever there. I've seen people on the shop floor of factories learning English to be able to speak to their 'big boss' who happened to be English.
Both the level of education and the attitude are completely different than what you see here.
It's not just an issue with being over qualified for the job.

I'm Italian, I'm not bothered at all. I think everyone is a bit hysterical.

Well I for one am overwhelmed with gratitude for this deeply considered and brilliantly argued insight that you have made such a gargantuan effort to offer to the thread.

bikerlou are you like one of my European colleagues at work who wasn't very bothered either, until yesterday when she actually took some time to inform herself properly?

Now she's terrified...

First they shamed employers into not hiring immigrants, but I did not complain..

Into not hiring immigrants

ScaredFuture maybe the difference between many other countries and our is that the working classes in other countries are keen on education. Even if you're poor, you are expected to fit in at school and get on with it. Not sure. I just know that employers are quite keen on EU workers across all levels from low-skilled to v specialised. As I said before, the very specialised people / experts command their salary and many of them are here in the UK, well London tbh because they loved how diverse and fun it was. was

Just after the vote, our ambassador did a lot of talks to people from my country to explain what it might mean for them.
They explain what would be a possible consequence, from what happens to my pension if I have to leave the UK/the uk is out of the EU to advice on getting the infamous 'Permanent Resident Card' (and it's 96 pages).

It was impossible to think that it was 'everyone being hysterical'. And thngs were no where near as bad then.

YY about the importance of education.
But as we've said before, education is a bit of a swear word here :(:(

Even in house, taking initiatives, finding ways to be more productive, challenging ways of doing things were all rejected as 'Not Working Properly' or 'Not my Job, why should I do that?'

Don't be a swat.
Don't do that or you'll show me up.
Don't get ideas above your station.
That's not my department/responsibility.

Myself and DH have been known to complain about this mentality a lot. Its not all Brits, but there is definitely an attitude like this about. Present as much in middle class as working class I might at. Professional as well as unskilled.

Oh look, it's Project Fear caught in a lie.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/06/amber-rudd-sofa-factory-boss-disappointed-criticism-staffing-collins-hayes

Today my daughter brought a census form from school, they want to know where each child was born and their nationality. I put in in the bin.

Good for you.

Next step make them wear a sign.

My children have UK passport but many children I know don't! We get many forms to fill for trips, etc, it was only after I started filling it in that I realised what it was, as I'd read about it. I'm sure many people just returned it in good faith

Bikerlou - you're Italian. Good for you. I met an elderly Dutch woman recently. She's been here for decades but didn't get naturalised. She was bewildered and worried about the ensuing hassle.

Don't be a swat.
Don't do that or you'll show me up.
Don't get ideas above your station.
That's not my department/responsibility.

Is this also part of why the NHS, one of the best systems in the world is crumbling? I mean because of failed bureaucracy? Bureaucracy that failed to be effective?

Red I found the PoliticalCompass interesting. It does seem that the old left-right descriptors are not so helpful now. I couldn't really make sense of how it was trying to explain referendum voting according to their left-right libertarian-authoritarian scales though. There is no pattern to how the 3 leave and 3 remain groups they identify are positioned. Did you find it helpful in explaining referendum voting?

I tried the test and was v surprised where I ended up. I will have a look at their reading list to see if they are right

WT interesting website and ideas.
I've just done the test to see where I stand. The one thing that came out for me is how culturally linked it is.
This test puts me as left liberal. But I know that, on French standards I am right (liberal).

The question on the importance of class shows the cultural influence too.

Re the referendum, the two things are striking:

• more or less everyone in the UK is on the right, which means there is no socialist agenda in politics. This could also explain the attraction that Corbyn has for a lot of people. He is the only one to represent some 'felty' values.
• More or less everyone is also authoritarian. I'm not sure what to make of that bar the fact it's scary that so many people believe and rely on 'authority'....

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/07/amber-rudds-brother-attacks-denigration-of-foreign-workers-after/

“Try and stand up for a multiracial Britain and you are labelled part of the liberal elite; point out the £20 billion net contribution from immigrants over a decade and you are told you are not listening to the people; oppose hate crime and you are mocked for political correctness.”

“It is easier to vilify foreigners in the new Britain than it is to espouse European values.”

scared....Corbyn having 'FELTY' values!!

He does seem to have a sort of hand-knitted lentils quality about him