Xenophobia: Brexit official discourse

[jaws5]

Hearing one minister after another at the Tory conference today has made me feel ill: So foreign doctors are welcome UNTIL more British doctors have been trained in a hurry, foreigners will be treated as second class citizens when applying for a job, and EU nationals are one of the "main cards" in Brexit negotiations. I cannot imagine any other country in the world where the official discourse of the governing party would include these statements without it being condemned as xenophobic. Shame on them.

Both my children identify as British first and then Spanish/European. What a let down...

There are a lot of people who did vote for this. I am one of them and I am not ashamed of it. Why on earth should the jobs here not go to people born here? And yes to training more British doctors and tying them in for a few years.
Many people, who are not posting on here, are wanting a stop to immigration. You may not like that view but it is a legitimate view. It is not racist or xenophobic to want to stop the flow of immigrants. In some areas people feel overwhelmed by foreigners.

Why on earth should the jobs here not go to people born here?

Indeed. Let's boot the Foreign Secretary out of his job for a start because a) he's incompetent and b) he wasn't born in the UK.

He is British though and he is far from incompetent.

He is the most incompetent FS in living memory. Name one country that he has not offended or where he is my regarded as a laughing stock. He has no sense of diplomatic protocol nor the basic machinations of international politics.

In some areas people feel overwhelmed by foreigners.

Absolutely, the first time I stepped into the ethnic food aisle of my local supermarket I was so overwhelmed by the selection of products I started hyperventilating and needed assistance from the store manager.

WrongTrouser I think both sides look at the other with a great deal of frustration. I know I certainly do at times. Mainly because its a completely different way of thinking. It bubbles over.

I am not bewildered by it – that accusation only serves to inflame my feelings. If only because I figured out what was happening and why prior to the ref by both sides and made a few predictions which have not been that wide of the mark so far.
I only hope I AM wrong on certain things. I actually don't want to be right about certain things as the consequences are not pleasant. Why would I want to be right about Project Fear? Its cutting off to spite my face just so I can say ‘I told you so’.
I do think that there is common ground to be found in what both sides believes WITHOUT the immigration question in a great many areas. With regard to the EU its I think how we approach things is crucial and I can't help but feel that so far just about everything May has done has not helped us. I understand why she has done many things including things I don’t agree with at times, and actually feel she had little room to do different.
What I can not accept is some of the things said in the last 48 hours or so that have actively endangered people. It’s a step too far.
The villianisation of liberals and educated really does lead us down a dark path. Suggesting it is undemocratic to use the courts to ensure your legal rights are protected is abhorrent and undermines the rule of law that she as PM should pledge to protect.

There have been quite a few pointing out on twitter today that 'lefty liberal' human rights lawyers are the ones who pursued the Hillsborough case for working class who had been let down by those in positions of power. And this is the purpose of human rights - to fit for those against the system rather than assuming that the motives of the system are always honourable. We all know this is not true, and yet we still want to place our trust in it out of idealistic hope. As part of that idealism, people think 'well I've done nothing wrong so I have nothing to fear' and make the naïve association of human rights lawyers protecting terrorists rather than 'ordinary working class people' to use a phrase May is rather fond of at the moment.
I guess I’m rather more cynical of government than many and still find it amazing that people most let down by the politicians in the past still are able to place their hopes for a better future with them in such a trusting belief. That says something of my mentality, and it perhaps says that I lack innocence and can see blacker things in how people intend to use power. It would be nice to still have the ability to trust and believe. It’s like asking me to believe in fairies though.
I've said this before about Brexit. Whether it happens or not is really not the point now for me. What IS the point is that we do the best for the country as a whole - which includes those who are not nationals but have invested their lives here in some way not just those who have the vote here. They are part of our communities too - a fact that seems to be lost in what May has said today - in her quest for trying to reach out to one part of the community she is betraying many others because they do not have the same value to her. HOW you do things is as important as WHAT you do next. Treating guests in our country with distain is disgusting.
I can live with Brexit even though I hate it; what I can not and not stand for is racism as such an integral and encouraged part of that. That is not good for society in any way. Ever. Whatever the justification.

Trying I've said before on this thread. I have no issue with the way the vote has gone as such.
I can understand why you think immigration is an issue. I actually think that the way the British politics have handle immigration as a whole is partly to blame.

But the way TM is going on about it is wrong and unacceptable. It's not what she wants to do (and what you have voted for) that is true issue. A lot of other countries have similar issue and IMO this is a much wider problem than just saying 'I'm closing the borders' and therefore requires an answer that is much wider too.
But encouraging xenophobia, supporting xenophobic attacks etc... Is NOT thr right way to go.

I remember about a year ago a thread on here about how Britain was a fantastic place to live because British people were ever so tolerant, not racist at all etc... Where is this country now? Where are the people that we making Britain so tolerant?
And how can you not balk at a PM that isn't elected put there to direct one of the most important and critical times for the country even though they are been chosen by the population and therefore aren't representative of what the people want?
How can you accept all her calls for not giving Parliament any say in the way Brexit is conducted?

I would have hope that British people voted out of the EU but not for becoming xenophobic.

Tryingtosaveup, You walked right into that one.

You didn't ask, why shouldn't we give jobs to people with dual nationality, one of which is British, but who were born elsewhere?

You said Why on earth should the jobs here not go to people born here?

Red you wouldn't want to lead the Brexit negociations instead of TM by any chance?

The comments about vilifying educated people reminds me of the way 'experts' have been vilified and put aside during the campaign.
I can see her point. If educated people aren't allowed to say anything, then she can do whatever she wants wo any opposition.

This is about Trumps but IMO could easily be transferred to TM.
Now I'm wondering, what is the % of British people who follow authority wo any questioning?

Ghostof, sorry if your were overwhelmed in the supermarket.
But, joking about how strongly people feel about immigration is part f the problem. Because you embrace it you feel it necessary to insult or make fun of others who dislike it.
For my part I agree with listing foreign workers, and I am delighted that TM is going to tackle immigration, all immigration.
This country is full. We can't build a second story.
I want to feel at ease and comfortable in my surroundings. I do not want to go into the supermarket where all the staff have East European accents. And don't tell me those jobs couldn't be done by British people.

Scared, I think many people here have been against immigration for a long time but we're scared of saying so because they would be branded racist. Look at what happened to the woman George Brown spoke to when he was campaigning. It just feels ok to be honest now.
However I think London is different because the majority of people who live in London have moved there. At least all of the ones I know have and that is a lot.

But trying that still doesn't excuse the way TM is going on about it.

Please tell me, are you not worried about what she is saying?
Are you not unconfortable about not involving Parliament?

Are you really OK to give all powers to her, absolutely all of them and that will mean risking your own liberties too, just because she says she will tackle immigration?

Tryingtosaveup actually it is xenophobic and parochial. Why don't you want to own your xenophobia? Either you stand by what you say and own up to what it is, or you maybe rethink what you are arguing for?

Fwiw, as a dual national I don't think I'm one bit more worthy than people who forever reason haven't got British citizenship. As an immigrant I don't think I'm any less worthy than born Brits.

Oh my god what a basic idiot she is...

So you are saying that actually most people were racist/xenophobic in the first place but society was stopping them from voicing their pov.

So that means that the notice tolerant Britain has never existed and we have been living a lie for a long time.

Well let's welcome reality then.

"it just feels ok to be honest now"... Don't waste your breath guys

Btw trying I do think that you are actually voicing what a lot of people think.
That's the thing that is so worrying and sad IMO.

I doubt I would be much good at negogiations as I want to remain.

I think if I were serious about a hard brexit though, I'd be going about it in a different way. A very different one. A hard brexit needs a managed exit even more than a soft one.

You need to present a compelling case for the idea. It might not be perfect, but a compelling one saying why its the best option would persuade or at least reassure based on the way Remainers make decisions on such ideas. Even if this weakens your hand - it strengthens it in others by building trust and a relationship.

The EU are hardening their line due to the way we are throwing our weight around and insulting everyone as much as possible.

Its not diplomatic. If it was any other business we would consider it unprofessional, yet its ok cos its politics.

All it is, is party popularist politics AGAIN which is the stuff that let people down and got us into this mess. It is NOT a break from the past in this respect. It is a continuation of this trend. May has just analyised where the votes are and is playing to that, rather than having a real vision for the country that works for everyone.

And until I see Amber Rudd's and Andrea Leadsom's tax returns and they show their assets are all on shore its bollcoks of the highest order.

You don't like Eastern European accents? What if I don't like Scouse accents. Scousers shouldn't be allowed to work in London. Don't tell me you couldn't get a Londoner to do the same job. Sorry its a crap argument.

I think this poster is deliberately trying to sound like a racist to wind people up - it's a form of late night trolling, best ignored. Eg "I don't want to go into a supermarket and hear Eastern European accents" - wtf - I don't want to share a message board with people who think that kind of xenophobic hate speech is appropriate. This poster should be banned.

I want to feel at ease and comfortable in my surroundings. I do not want to go into the supermarket where all the staff have East European accents
I'm afraid I just don't understand this at all. What is it about foreign accents (as opposed to, say, a Geordie one) that makes you feel so uncomfortable?

Cxc, I am not an idiot. Again throwing insults is not an argument. You may not like what I am saying but a lot of people agree with me. And it is immaterial to me whether you think I am xenophobic.

Do you really think TM would be saying these things if she did not believe they were popular?
Scared, yes I am very happy with the things TM is saying. So are most people I know.
I think if she called an election she would have a large majority.

"But trying that still doesn't excuse the way TM is going on about it."

This is what this threat is about as I understand it. How things are being talked about by senior politicians and leaders.

"Brexit official discourse"

The official discourse, as we have seen, is to present EU foreigners as the biggest threat the United Kingdom face.

Are EU citizens living in the United Kingdom the biggest problem the UK face at this moment in time?

Well, of course not. But this myth has been promoted by the daily mail, Sun and so on, they have been campaigning hard for this.

Of course trying is xenophobic. What's wrong with immigrants? What's bothering you so much about them? Mostly they work and pay taxes, no?

Figment... So you would ban me because you don't agree with me, or because you do not like what I am saying.
I am not a troll. I have been on MN for years.