'leavers' At last we have a date for A50. March 2017 it is then.

[surferjet]

Good to have a set date.

Setting a date is good because we now have a date is straight from the brexit means brexit school of sense
No need for facts when you have such jems.

"brexit means brexit" and "it will all be fine" are the two intellectual soundbites of the Brexiters I know, if I dig any deeper they start repeating themselves, unless they've had a drink and then they'll talk about the "bloody Germans" and how we've defeated them before and are doing it again, about foreigners in general, and bendy bananas type arguments. Yep, that's the level.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/04/uneducated-people-voted-to-leave-the-eu-suggests-jo-johnson/

foreignoffice we have to laugh, really...

There never were any laws for retailers on shape of bananas. Those EU laws were for growers and were asked for by the food industry as a whole including the UK. What we may find out is how many EU laws were driven by the UK, which will be interesting.

There's about 75,000 laws on our statute book – no-one seems to know how many of them came from the EU.

I'm sure many on here will see the irony in proposing EU laws become UK ones. Currently the EU has 22,000 laws on its books, some of which do not apply to this country (commercial tobacco growing for example). Sorting that lot out should be a job for life.

Interest about Leave? Recently went on a Douro River cruise with 70 Brits on board. No-one discussed it all.

What we may find out is how many EU laws were driven by the UK, which will be interesting.

Are you suggesting that the UK may have enjoyed the glories of "sovereignty" all along and simply blamed stuff the masses disliked on the EU, assuming they wouldn't question / know any better?

You may think that Foreign Office, I couldn't possibly comment.

My point about the timeline is that negotiations will start, the phony brexit that we have right now is very damaging really, we need to get a move on if its going to happen. Talks will have been going on informally, but with individual countries not the EU its self.

Of course brexit could still be damaging, but there is a slight chance that it may work out.

That's about as optimistic as you're going to get.

I really don't know whether to put any more time into this thread/board because I feel that some pps do not want discussion but just to point score but hey ho, here I go as I want to make a couple of points about things which have been said on this thread.

If people want to assume a lack of interest in Brexit due to the fact it is not being discussed at work/on cruises/ etc, etc then assume away. I think it is more likely that most people recognise that discussions on the subject often descend into stereotyped assumptions, insults and name calling (see plenty of above comments, I see we are back to the uneducated voted leave chestnut again - perhaps a slightly more in depth and nuanced look at the figures and understanding of statistics needed on that one) and so keep off the subject. I know I have avoided discussing it with many people.

Also, if leavers decline to answer certain questions and generally don't accept the parameters of discussion set by certain remain posters, this is not because they don't have answers. I think most leave voters who've been participating on these threads for a while have had enough of being spoken to like naughty school children and don't bother to respond to that type of question. Certainly for me, I am very happy to debate and discuss with posters who talk to me as an equal but am not going to get into a discussion with anyone who is condescending and for some bizarre reason thinks they are better than me.

"I see we are back to the uneducated voted leave chestnut again - perhaps a slightly more in depth and nuanced look at the figures and understanding of statistics needed on that one"

Well there was actually a study published that showed that if you are educated to degree level you were far more likely to remain, and if a GCSE is the highest education standard you have achieved you were far more likely to vote leave.

Does what it says on the tin.

Oh and I'd look to your colleagues for inspiring the attitude, the "you lost" or whatever other argument keeps being put forward.

If you don't want to answer questions, that's fine, or your colleagues, but please don't say that you want people to treat you like equals. That would involve engaging and answering the questions, and not trotting out the platitudes and incorrect information, again.

Also I would be interested to know why you were unable to vote StrangeLookingParasite - of course no obligation to answer. I would normally think it absolutely none of my business but given some of your vitriolic comments at the 37% of eligible voters who exercised their right to choose one of the two possible options at a referendum held by our democratically elected government, I think it might, under some circumstances, be relevant.

Small What platitudes or wrong information have I posted?

Not you, but you were speaking on behalf of others who when questioned seem to be able to go no further than things like the EU army or incorrect information on immigration.

I don't deny there is a correlation between education and voting - it has been clearly shown that there is. However the size of the effect is often hugely overstated and as anyone who listens to the lovely Tim Harford on More or Less knows, correlation does not equal causation. There are lots of other factors going on here - age, class, wealth, geography. I also think just experience of university life is a big factor but one which declines the further away from your uni years you are (huge remain vote for those attending uni, dropping off fairly sharply for graduates no longer at uni). So it might not be mainly education itself that determines how people voted but other characteristics, experiences or values shared by graduates. Also education interacts with other factors so for example, graduates who live in a generally low education/ low wage area are more likely to vote leave than those of the same education level in a high education area. So what's that all about?

I'm just trying to say there is a bit more to the education correlation than "snigger, snigger, all those uneducated people voted leave, not like us clever remainers" - not saying you have said this Small but was said by others up thread.

And I also slight worry at the condescension shown by some to less educated people. Some of my best friends, shock, horror, don't have degrees, gasp.

I agree that correlation doesn't equal causation, but the correlation between the degree level voters is very high, it doesn't "drop off" all that much after university, but drops off with age, where older people are less likely to have attended anyway ( 5% of those who were born in the 1940's/50's rising to 15% of those born int the 60's) its actually fairly easy to look at the vote trend and find that there is a significant correlation between the two and so therefore level of education is a significant determinant of the way that you would vote.

There is also a significance that areas with more highly paid , educated and professional workers voted in the majority to remain, whilst those with low paid, low skilled workers voted to leave, further demonstrating the links mentioned above.

I think the condescension shown to leave voters comes from the fact that leavers often use reasons that have been proved to be based on incorrect information tome and time again, yet they still use them.

Many of my friends do not have degrees, but they don't demonstrate this sort of ignorance, or unwillingness to admit that whilst the information was out there, they chose to only look at flawed sources which confirmed their own bias.

Its fine to critique people's opinions and to challenge them, the everyone's opinion is equal narrative is not correct and merely allows the further expansion of post truthism.

The sneering on here at the uneducated actually makes me sick. I'd far rather be uneducated than down right nasty.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-brexit-secretary-eu-referendum-campaign-lies-a7344611.html

Polls conducted in mid June showed half of the British public believed Vote Leave’s claim that the UK pays £350m a week to the European Union despite the figure being debunked. Ipsos MORI found that 47 per cent of the public believed that the claim, which had been repeatedly criticised by the UK Statistics Authority, is true. Just 39 per cent realise the figure, which formed the centerpiece of the Vote Leave campaign, is false, while 14 per cent do not know.

You contribute to the sneering though surfer, you come and you heckle others, make remarks about along the lines of "you lost" etc, yet fail to justify your opinions and reasons for voting leave properly, or give reasons that are not easily debunked.

Well you did lose, that's a fact - I'm not saying it just to annoy you!

Yeah but we lost because people just repeated untruths, or as proved by the study linked to above didn't even bother to try and find out information.

Its not really a victory if you've had to lie to people to get them to do it.

"Polls conducted in mid June showed half of the British public believed Vote Leave’s claim that the UK pays £350m a week to the European Union despite the figure being debunked. Ipsos MORI found that 47 per cent of the public believed that the claim, which had been repeatedly criticised by the UK Statistics Authority, is true. Just 39 per cent realise the figure, which formed the centerpiece of the Vote Leave campaign, is false, while 14 per cent do not know."

Interesting poll but it doesn't break down the 47% of the public who believed the claim according to whether they voted leave or remain.

surfer why is it that, absolutely without fail, you only read the parts of posts you want to.

smallfox mentioned you make remarks about us losing but don't ever answer questions asked of you.

Surprise surprise you focused on the former and completely ignored the latter.

I actually think that you are contributing enormously to the anger felt in these threads because you seem hell bent on trying to wind Remainers up by making pathetically shallow comments with absolutely no attempt at defending your position.

or as proved by the study linked to above didn't even bother to try and find out information.

Neither did some that voted remain.

There was ignorance on both sides.

These arguements just go round and round in circles.

Neither 'side' as I've said before are homogeneous groups.