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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Project Fear were wrong all along?

430 replies

MrsPeterParker · 21/09/2016 20:29

With all the newspapers and economic reports screaming there is no/ only positive impact of brexit so far, do you think the Remainers were all wrong and needlessly projecting doomsday scenarios ?

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GettinTrimmer · 22/09/2016 08:50

Yes I have - family and neighbours and people on the radio. When I say clueless of course they don't have time to research and read articles for hours.

Anyway, Winchester you are entitled to your opinion, there are enough divisions. Brexit will take a long time and I hope there isn't too much damage.

WinchesterWoman · 22/09/2016 08:53

No they didn't. The motif 'take back control' was quite, quite deliberate. It was clear we already get money back from the EU - it was about keeping half and regaining control of the other half.

I don't think people are as stupid as you seem to think. . When told something is built or funded with European money they thought - no that's our money. And there'll be a lot more if we leave. That's what they thought.

I guess some didn't care about the money, like many Scot nats, and simply wanted sovereignty. Prop loo e voted for different reasons.

WinchesterWoman · 22/09/2016 08:55

"No they didn't" does not refer to your friend trimmer.

whatwouldrondo · 22/09/2016 09:09

Winchesterwoman people are already leaving the country. I know several. And I know many more, especially young people and my family who see their future abroad. Science and Technology and our universities, formerly a source of our competitive advantages in the world, are already hit. Excluded from research projects and EU funding, academics feeling this is the time to leave for the golden handshakes in the US having tolerated the funding starved conditions in British unversities for decades, academics and students deterred from coming here. Services and manufacturing may be keeping quiet and waiting to see what emerges from negotiations, who knows, we may emerge with all the benefits we have now, freedom of movement bar some window dressing, and just the loss of a say in the decisions. I think that with the cold hard truth of the impact on the economy and tax revenues already having come home to Phillip Hammond, hence his recent bullish statements on the City, that is a distinct possibility. However make no mistake businesses are busy making contingency plans for every option including a hard Brexit that will see a significant part of our manufacturing and services sector move overseas and the economy contract significantly.

You are older you say, have you given a moment's thought to the young people who valued the opportunities being part of Europe gave them, did not want this and now find already that the opportunities that were available to them pre Brexit have dried up?

Project Fear was a failure because it relied on the same formula that got Cameron elected, and was just as big a con. It could not therefore focus on the benefits of EU membership, and indeed free movement. Those of us who experienced the benefits voted remain, younger people and people whose work meant they understood the wider world. The rest were left by project fear with no clue.......

topsy777 · 22/09/2016 09:14

"National Statistics Authority" = NSA ?

Seriously? The UK statistic agency is called ONS - Office for National Statistic.

This is their latest:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37428764

"The referendum result appears, so far, not to have had a major effect," its chief economist Joe Grice said.Official figures have not yet reflected the collapse in confidence predicted by some surveys since the referendum.

So wrong then, and I believe will be wrong later.
Hard work will ensure a better future. It is not as if EU is giving out free money iphone Samsung Galaxy Edge.

topsy777 · 22/09/2016 09:29

"Those of us who experienced the benefits voted remain"

The other half of the sentence (probably) reads "Those of us who experienced the pitfalls voted exit" ?

GettinTrimmer · 22/09/2016 09:32

UK Statistics Authority, google it. My mistake calling it National Statistics Authority. Not sure what their relationship is to the ONS, but interesting reading. DH is a statistician for ONS, he will send us a link, but anyway, the £350 million was misleading to say the least.

I hope you are right. I have a million and one things to do now so will link this evening.

GettinTrimmer · 22/09/2016 09:35

Oh, and I wasn't talking about effects on the economy so far, just about outlandish claims the leave campaign made. BBC article talks about economy so far. We've not left as we know.

whatwouldrondo · 22/09/2016 09:38

Topsy Most of those pitfalls that motivated leave voters, shortage of school places, difficulty getting doctors appointments etc., basically the failure to spread the benefits of a thriving economy much beyond London and the big cities were down to the government, and in particular their austerity policies. They, with the help of the Press, deflected the blame on to the EU in general and immigration in particular. I know a lot of leave voters in the north and I can assure you that was exactly what motivated their vote. The sad thing is that it has divided families as well as the country. I am not the only child who moved south to find herself and the grandchildren suddenly branded as part of the "privileged metropolitan elite" when you used to be the child they were proud of because you had worked hard, moved to where the opportunities were and done well. Hmm

KathyBeale · 22/09/2016 09:40

I'm no economist but aren't we benefiting from being in this odd transition phase? Tourism and manufacturing are having a short-term boost because the pound is weak (so it's cheap to come here, and to buy British stuff) and we still have free movement of people, and the trade agreements.

Seems to me an artificial boost based on a very shaky foundation.

Bearbehind · 22/09/2016 09:42

The promise was to spend some of it on the NHS. Which will happen

Says who? Hmm

It's very likely what ever agreement we reach will cost as much, if not more than the net payments to the EU were so where's this magical money for the NHS coming from.

WinchesterWoman · 22/09/2016 09:43

Whatwouldrondo 'having tolerated the funding starved conditions in British universities for decades' - and yet all we heard about it the run up was how much funding the EU gives our universities?

Did I give much thought to my children when I voted? Yes, I voted for them. I voted for a better future for them.

WinchesterWoman · 22/09/2016 09:43

'It's very likely what ever agreement we reach will cost as much, if not more than the net payments to the EU'

see this is just made up

twofingerstoGideon · 22/09/2016 09:44

And let's not forget the massive cost of 'doing' Brexit - the accountants, lawyers, negotiators, extra backroom staff etc. Has This been properly costed yet?

fakenamefornow · 22/09/2016 09:45

If you honestly believed that people would be fired the day after the Brexit vote, what can I say?

I know people who were fired the day after the vote. Well, a couple of days after given redundancy notice. Construction industry,, and contracts were cancelled.

topsy777 · 22/09/2016 09:45

GiTrimmer

I see.

UK Statistics Authority is the supervisory/quality check body for ONS (and local government stats departments etc).

Bearbehind · 22/09/2016 09:47

kathy some are benefiting but if you import goods then the reverse is true and, as we are a net importer, more are losing out that gaining.

plus the economy is only where it is currently as the Bank of England pumped billions into it to keep it going.

But Brexiters will continue to stick their head in the sand and pretend it's all hunky dory.

Peregrina · 22/09/2016 09:51

DC interviewing for a job in France. Potentially 10 years worth of engineering qualifications lost to the UK.

Louts who kick a Pole to death - going nowhere, except perhaps a detention centre at a cost to the taxpayer.

Discuss who will make the greater contribution to the UK economy.

Bearbehind · 22/09/2016 09:52

see this is just made up

Again- says who?

Cornwall voted Leave then said the next day they still wanted the money they received from the EU.

Aside from the enormous cost of the negotiations etc, we could well end up having to pay for access to the Single market.

We will no longer revive rebates/ subsidies.

We will need to support some of the areas the EU previously funded.

We could well have to offer incentives to say Japanese businesses to stay here.

Agreed no one knows the exact breakdown but there inns going to be a big spare pot of cash left over.

I'll ask again- what makes you think the NHS will receive extra funding by leaving the EU.

Figmentofmyimagination · 22/09/2016 09:55

WinchesterWoman: Did I give much thought to my children when I voted? Yes, I voted for them. I voted for a better future for them.

I'm intrigued by this. What specific benefits do you see resulting from this outcome for your children?

Do you foresee any downsides for them at all?

Yawnyawnallday · 22/09/2016 09:57

We're still in the EU. The shit is yet to come. Apart from all the racist shit that is already out of the bottle to our nation's shame.

WinchesterWoman · 22/09/2016 09:57

No figment, none at all. They'll still be able to work abroad. Why not?

WinchesterWoman · 22/09/2016 10:01

Bear I wish I could copy and paste some of that and parse it because there's a lot of dross in there😧But phone. Anyway obviously some of it will go to the nhs and in the fullness of time the pressure on it will decrease.

WinchesterWoman · 22/09/2016 10:02

Pressure on the nhs, that is.

whatwouldrondo · 22/09/2016 10:02

Winchesterwoman How exactly do you propose to deliver this better future to them? Given that our competitive advantage in the world lies in our Scientific and technological expertise (which is leaving), our financial services industry, the only industry sector with a trade surplus, for now, which is at risk and our trading relationship with our neighbours (just as the Asian economic boom is linked to the close trading relationships within Asia)

Universities have indeed greatly benefitted from EU funding and the free movement of EU students. Their funding from government however has been decimated, and they are sub third world (because third world countries tend to invest heavily in universities) in terms of domestic funding whilst having managed to remain world leading. However that has already been damaged, Cambridge has dropped out of the top 3 in world rankings as a direct result of Brexit and the impact on the perceptions of academics worldwide, for the first time.