Project Fear were wrong all along?

[MrsPeterParker]

With all the newspapers and economic reports screaming there is no/ only positive impact of brexit so far, do you think the Remainers were all wrong and needlessly projecting doomsday scenarios ?

Winchesterwoman You can get your own warm glow from being in bed with the bankers if you like. Doesn't bother me. You lost.

And you can get YOUR warm glow from being in bed with racists like the EDL and BNP.

Fancy that. A tone won the referendum for Leave.

Pity that common sense didn't prevail.

Winchester (again)
Car-makers have demonstrated confidence in the UK since Brexit.
Can I refer you to the quote above from the CEO of Jaguar Land Rover: "Dr Ralf Speth, chief executive of JLR, also joined senior figures at rival firms in warning that a hard Brexit would damage the car industry, which supports around 800,000 jobs."

Or Nissan's "confidence".

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/29/nissan-seeks-brexit-compensation-deal-before-making-uk-investmen/

In fact the entire industry has suggested that it is not confident after Brexit.

Erdogan saved his neck by saying democracy was under threat.

May says legal challenges are an attempt to subvert democracy. Which is kind of weird seeing as you'd think the courts in this country were about protecting the law and rule of the country.

Mark Elliot who says that the government's core a50 defence is sound (he's a constitutional law expert) has written this blog
publiclawforeveryone.com/2016/10/02/theresa-mays-great-repeal-bill-some-preliminary-thoughts/ about the 'Great' Repeal Act.

In it are some rather stark warnings about how the Government are actively seeking to avoid parliament and democratic debate. It suggests this is a concentration and seizing of executive power which won't just be about a50 but will last for years.

In terms of accountability, this is bad news. Very bad news. It is a concentration of power which is never a good thing.

Yet in the narrative of debunking Project Fear this is being ignored and we are being told to trust the government by people.

You should be as worried by someone in a position of power suggesting that the use of the courts is an affront to democracy. She could well be interpreted as trying to intimidate anyone who does challenge the government through legal means and trying to get them to drop their case somehow. Especially since one of the main legal challenges comes from a cross party group in NI (where the Tory party holds no elected members of parliament), NI has the GFA and it voted to Remain - thus the idea that imposing Brexit on it can very legitimately be called undemocratic and against the will of the people. The legal system is a very important part of a democratic system so suggesting that using it is undemocratic and that people should not do so because you don't like their point of view is an affront to that freedom. It challenges the very idea of freedom of speech.

Even if you are for Brexit, a50 and the whole process of Brexit NEEDS to pass through parliament to protect democracy.

The irony is rife here. A hell of a lot of it is coming from the mouth of Mrs May herself. Democracy is far more than just referendum votes.

Was Project Fear wrong? Well I would say these actions were fears expressed by it which are indeed playing out as feared, yet this is being deflected by the very same means that someone who is currently conducting a huge purge and removal of democratic structures used.

Of course, the alarm bells won't go off in the minds of those who support Brexit for the same reasons that Erdogan has secured and tightened his grip on power. People want to believe.

No we won't end up with the extreme like Turkey but we are definitely going to move in that direction. 'Taking back control' wasn't for the people. It is and always was about those who don't particularly like democratic freedom for the masses.

Winchester There was a lot of research, but it was prompted by very strong feelings of sympathy for people who say they suffered due to the unlimited supply of labour combined with limited jobs resources and houses. I really felt for them when they said no one was listening.

And you didn't stop to ask yourself whether the 'suffering' was actually due to our membership of the EU or whether it was due to government policy/austerity/failure to build houses/ inflated property market due to BTL landlords etc?

The major problem is that whilst research shows a very minimal effect on wages, 1.8% fall for every 10 percentage points increase in immigration the increases in immigration have no happened in that dramatic a way.

For example the entire rise in immigrants in employment observed since the 2004-06 period in the semi/unskilled services sector was about 7 percentage points. So the 1.8% decrease in wages was not achieved even at some of the highest points.

What is also not noted was that net migration fell between 2008 and 2011 so that immigration would have had even less impact on wages.

Data, love it.

Erodgan had his emergency powers.

We have the 'Great' Repeal Act.

This tweeter sums up well:

Ministry For Brexit ‏@MinistryBrexit

1: Great Repeal Bill 'enshrines' EU law into UK law. But at same time gives Executive power to Tories to cancel laws at will
2: That's Executive power as in "not referring to Parliament"
3: Those EU laws they can cancel without challenge
Employment law
Consumer protection law
Environmental protection law
4: If Tories come under pressure to cut 'old' EU red tape from business - like the recent overtime / holiday rules - they can do just that
5: Or as part of an investment deal from an overseas country they can do away with environmental law - without referring to Parliament
6: They will do this under the banner of "making Britain Great again"
7: www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/don-t-be-fooled-may-s-big-eu-announcement-is-just-admin

Now also consider this: What happens if at any point, the current government collapses. Who will the power of the executive over Brexit pass to? It might be safe. But you could also end up with an even more right wing government?

Then that starts to get really scary. Its dangerous stuff. We should not even expose the country to that risk. However small and however unlikely. Afterall, no one thought Leave would win the referendum but it did.

Today's Telegraph has a letter from a John Allen who is Chairman of Northampton Brexit. Arguing that May should be speed up the exit process, because, he writes, “… In the meantime, we will continue to pay £350 million each week to the EU; ...” Some people still believe it!

BBC News last night had a clip of May saying there was 'overwhelming' support to leave. If four percentage points is 'overwhelming' I hesitate to think what 'close' would be.

The irony is rife here. Oh yes, wasn't it part of the Leave argument we needed to be democratic? And think what the outcry would be if Corbyn wins the next election and the left decided to ignore Parliament. Nationalise everything (no compensation), £10 minimum wage, workers on every board, renumeration at the top no more than 50% of the lowest worker and free dentistry, glasses etc., for all.

The two day safety courses for all sorts of trades evolved from the UK's Health and Safety and Work Act in 1974. The first EU referendum was 1975. I'll be interested to see how many of the UK driven EU rules will be abandoned, the lawyers will have a field day when something goes wrong because of changes, such as serious illness swimming in water that was less than pure.

Data, love it. Me too smallfox Immigration and effect on NHS. Ten years ago our local A&E had four ambulances, today it's still four despite a massive increase in population. Up until March of this year our local surgery could boast seeing patients the same day – though it would be any doctor. Now it's telephone triage, you ring, the doctor rings you back. Again caused by a massive increase in population. Not caused by immigration but by the building of hundreds of houses round the town. Number of schools has stayed the same – the problem is caused by cuts to local authorities and/or by lack of planning.

Petronius - isn't the £350m a week the gross figure that we have to ear mark as being available to send to the EU so he's not wrong in a sense.
He wasn't talking about it going to the NHS.

Austerity had a lot to answer for.

EU immigration certainly isn't to blame for NHS issues. The healthy migrant effect disproves it.

It's also something brexiteers need to acknowledge, in many areas the leave vote wasn't about the EU, it was abut hitting back at Cameron for austerity.

it was abut hitting back at Cameron for austerity.

Absolutely true, but be careful of what you wish for. We now have megalomaniac May in charge.

isn't the £350m a week the gross figure that we have to ear mark as being available to send to the EU so he's not wrong in a sense.

Nice try Corcory - you know as well as everyone, him included, that we never earmark this figure, because it does not include the rebate which Maggie Thatcher negotiated. Keep up the lies: the people are sheep. When it's too late they will wake up and start bleating that this wasn't what they voted for.

Corcory, no the gross figure is about £260 million (relying on memory!) as we deduct the rebate at source. If the bus/poster had said 'EU costs us £126 million a week, let's give that to the NHS.', I'd have no complaint.

£126 million = £350 million minus rebate, less all the various grants we receive from EU.

Therefore if Mr Allen had written, '... the EU will continue to cost us £126 million a week ...' I wouldn't have posted.

Leave voters will never say this isn't what they voted for. Ever.

Even if Sunderland loses Nissan.

Even if London loses its passporting rights and all those City workers - who pay a lot of income tax - relocate.

Because they voted for populist demagoguery and that kind of illogical, base bollocks never sees reason and always always needs someone else to blame.

I've read that Leavers are prepared to put up with ten years of pain for the sake of Brexit. So they can buy more powerful hoovers and brighter light bulbs.

It is anti logic. Anti evidence. Anti education. Anti expert.

And they still peddle the £350m per week lie. And the Leave voters still swallow it whole.

I reckon we won't see a disastrous economic flop in the UK. We will see a slow and gentle puncture and we will subside into minor irrelevant economic presence as time rolls on.

Leave voters will never say this isn't what they voted for. Ever.

No one likes to admit that they were made a fool of. I see a long slow decline too - with predominantly young people and the ones with get up and go leaving.

Leave voters will never say this isn't what they voted for. Ever.

I'm gobsmacked by the extent of a Leave voters ability to refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation.

The latest 'emperors new clothes' being what a fantastic idea it is to enshrine EU law into UK law.

It is some kind of brain washing.

Not sure if people have read this article but it is well worth a look.

They should have the balls to say to Nissan, ‘Fine, you leave. We’ll buy it and we’ll run it.’ I’d like to see that plant wholly UK-owned. Why can’t they step in and say, ‘Let’s build the best car in the world?’ Why do we have to be held to ransom by these fellas?”

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/30/its-blackmail-really-nissan-employees-on-the-brexit-compensation-demand

OMFG ghost

What kind of deluded animal has this vote unleashed?

winky I Completely agree

What worries me most now, if the statements coming out of the Tory party conference are anything to go by, is that TM and her Brexiteers are being so intransigent that they are rushing headlong into a Hard Brexit, just to prove a point about how strong they are, instead of having the guts to stop and think.

Just read the Guardián Nissan article. I wonder how many people are taking their money out of the country...

Did you see Bojos quote that our policy is to have our cake and eat it?

It's disgusting that this is still a game to those who are in control.