Project Fear were wrong all along?

[MrsPeterParker]

With all the newspapers and economic reports screaming there is no/ only positive impact of brexit so far, do you think the Remainers were all wrong and needlessly projecting doomsday scenarios ?

Since you're back winchesterwoman, are you going to tell us about that 'obvious' place the NHS money is going to come from when we leave the EU?

"And treat people as a capital property, not people."

If you think the current government are not going to turn the UK over to free marketeers who will do just that you are really, really fucking deluded.

Some of the money we don't pay in. And if only, if only, we could stop the health service being an international health service, we wouldn't need to spend so much in the first place. We are dealing with the conditions of people who have not been able to afford health care for years and years and years. And it cannot be done.

I'm not 'fucking deluded' thank you smallfox. What an odd thing to suggest. Why on earth do you think the sort of people I imagine you hate - like, for example, the bankers at Goldman Sachs - are so in favour of us staying in the EU? Because it benefits people like them, and it does not benefit people like, say lorry drivers in Doncaster. Freedom of movement means people are nothing but property, until we are all in their world view the dependent and needy, standing on street corners waiting for a pickup to come along and give us work for the day at any old price.

"We are dealing with the conditions of people who have not been able to afford health care for years and years and years. "

From the EU?

How about the international staff on the health service? Shall we do without them too? Or the EU immigrants making net contributions to the exchequer?

BTW the money we don't pay in, is removed from the tax take by a very mild 0.5% decrease in economic growth.

You don't half post some utter drivel.

In what way is it an 'International health service'? Non residents, from outside the EEA, are asked to pay, unless there are reciprocal arrangements. This precludes life saving emergency treatment - which I would like to think was a mark of being a civilised society.

I'm glad though that you will also want to stop the reciprocal arrangements for e.g. women going to Spain for IVF treatement, or those going to E Europe for cheaper dental work.

For goodness sake.

Do you honestly think we'll have a nice stash because we'll have nothing else to spend it on if we no longer pay into the EU?

I know you dismissed my thoughts as 'dross' but could you elaborate on why the following costs are not going to outweigh anything we were paying before:-

• cost of any tariffs imposed outside the single market
• cost of subsidising companies like Nissan to make it worth them staying in the UK.
• the costs of renegotiating all these deals?

• costs of health care for British pensioners returning from Spain since healthcare will no longer be covered by reciprocal arrangements?

Yes, from the EU Of course. I'm sorry, how many countries in the EU do you think have a free to access heath service?

Yes, we'll do without them and replace them or we'll give them work permits. The number of EU migrants working in the NHS is not as high as you might imagine.

EU migrants may or may not be able to stay. There is such a thing as a work permit. Perhaps they could be issued when health insurance is secured.

How do you think other countries manage these things? Do you think they work on the basis of, oh we haven't got freedom of movement and we haven't got a free health service so we'll just throw our pinnies over our faces and hope for the best?

Drivel? Pots and kettles.

Did I dismiss your thoughts as dross, Bear?

Other countries manage. So will we.

So you're not going to answer the points I've posed above......again ww but just harp on about the NHS?

Which "other countries" we're you thinking of there WinchesterWoman?

Whaa? I was asked direct questions about the NHS.

You seem to think, Bear, that a we're like a mewling infant with no resources, no confidence, no skills, no value, entirely dependent on the great mothership of Brussels for all our needs. The great thing is, we aren't, and you're so angry because you lost the argument, you lost the vote and you just keep losing and it's driving you nuts.

ww I quote from your post on this thread

Bear I wish I could copy and paste some of that and parse it because there's a lot of dross in there😧But phone. Anyway obviously some of it will go to the nhs and in the fullness of time the pressure on it will decrease

It was in response to a similar question I posed above.

Could you at least attempt to address the questions?

I'm angry at the twaddle being peddled by Leave voters with no attempt at justifying it.

Can you tell us a bit more about our resources, our confidence, our skill and our value that is going to see us prosper outside of the EU.

Or is it all just sound bites?

One of the issues in the Witney constituency is the downgrading of local hospitals, potentially causing residents an hour's drive to the overstretched John Radcliffe in Oxford. One reason behind the downgrading is the inability to attract and retain staff.

Is that what you Leavers voted for? Do I remember a red bus with £350 million a week for the NHS? We will have a chunk of that in Oxfordshire please.

Oh I believe that I said it, i"m just surprised at myself.

No, not really. You console yourself with the fact that your on the same side as Goldman Sachs, JP morgan, George Soros (the man who broke the Bank of England and forced us out of the ERM) and a host of other global banking luminaries who would happily have us bend over and take it until we can't sit down.

I'm so happy I'm on the side of lorry drivers in Doncaster. It gives me a warm glow. You can get your own warm glow from being in bed with the bankers if you like. Doesn't bother me. You lost.

Yes, we'll do without them and replace them

Not with numbers taking on healthcare qualifications set to drop thanks to the loss of the NHS bursary.

OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING IN

oh wait

So ww your argument for Leaving the EU is not worthy or any justification beyond Doesn't bother me. you lost

Pathetic.

A report from a canvasser in the Witney by election says that a UKIP voter has been turned because he's annoyed that Farage lied about the £350 million. In fact Farage distanced himself from this claim, but it's the person's perception which counts not what was actually said.

""I'm sorry, how many countries in the EU do you think have a free to access heath service?"

Most people in the EU have about the same access to healthcare as we do with the NHS.
Also here you are going AGAINST evidence that increases in immigration in an area actually reduces waiting times at A and E and for elective treatments. Its a well known thing it called the healthy migrant effect.

The NHS is not suffering because of immigration, so your point is utter drivel. Pots and Kettles? Nah, you're just showing yourself to be an idiot.

"EU migrants may or may not be able to stay"

In which case we're about to get a whole load of British pensioners back from Spain, you know those ones who are twice as likely to be hospitalised as their Spanish peers?

You really have no idea what you are talking about

The health service will continue to employ eu workers regardless. Essential workers will continue to be welcome and be well paid to be here.

Does anyone here really not believe that?

No, I don't believe that. What you overlook is the factor that existing foreigners in the NHS, and not just EU citizens, have already been made to feel unwelcome. If they can go elsewhere to practise, where they are welcome, why bother to come here, however great the inducements?

Add to that, UK health professionals leaving in droves because of Hunt's mismanagement.