Project Fear were wrong all along?

[MrsPeterParker]

With all the newspapers and economic reports screaming there is no/ only positive impact of brexit so far, do you think the Remainers were all wrong and needlessly projecting doomsday scenarios ?

Agree, referendums should be limited to 'What colour passport should we have?'

That quote is like Churchill's, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

It's the emperors new clothes.

No one wants to admit there is a total lack of understanding of the impact of not being in the EU, and what would be the effect to the UK economy of leaving.

So now we are going through this very stupid and embarrassing shambles, in the view of the worlds press, while our politicians stumble around in the dark trying to look for the emperors new clothes, to please all.

Who is going to put the politicians out of their misery and say it can't be done, or it could but the cost of the changes listed below would be so high we just can't afford it.

• the additional bureaucratic costs (trade negotiators, border controls, lawyers, regulation rewriters, law drafting, government time etc)
• the loss of manufacturing industry to the EU like Nissan, Honda
• the loss of scientific research and innovation in higher education

The country needs to come to our senses and quickly.

Saxie - that's exactly how I feel.

Motheroffourdragons - I have time and again talked on these boards about my reasons for voting leave and what I for see the future being but the likes of Bearbehind and Smallfox have belittled my ideas so much that I am certainly not going to go through them again just to be shot down every time.
You have been so influenced by their rhetoric that you believe that you again repeat the 'still can't come up with any good reasons' line. But I have and no, I have no intention going into it again at the moment. I have no need of putting myself in the firing line yet again, I just don't need it.

I second that Corcory, Mother just read back, lots of Leavers have repeatedly given their reasons.

Motheroffourdragons - I think you have been influenced by the fact that people keep saying the leavers - these that post on these boards - haven't given any reasons. I'm sure you can make up your own mind but if you had time you could look at the previous threads where you will see the likes of me giving our reasons but of course that must be a figment of my imagination!

Funny that democracy and sovereignty are given over and over again as reasons, yet brexit is going to be neither sovereign, nor democratic.

Cocory, your ideas weren't belittled, they were challenged as being incorrect ( which the were) its the nature of debate.

Sadly though I am worried, and I think there are an awful lot of worried people in the UK right now.

I agree but where is our political representation? The voices in parliament speaking up for the vast majority of the population who did not vote for this?

Have joined the LibDems but what about the centrist MPs in all the other parties? Who is going to make the case for an inclusive, united and open UK? The referendum result cannot be overturned but parliament should have a massive say on the type of "Brexit" that we are going to get.

May saying she will use her royal prerogative is a frightening sign of things which may be to come IMO.

Buy US currency now, sell on article 50 trigger. Profit.

I agree but where is our political representation? The voices in parliament speaking up for the vast majority of the population who did not vote for this?

Yes, indeed. My MP voted Remain and represents a solidly Remain area, but is now happily singing the Brexit means Brexit tune. I have asked her to explain what this means, and tell me what has persuaded her to change her mind. Since she is not the only MP singing this tune, I think the Tories have been solidly whipped into their position. With one or two honourable exceptions.

I too joined the Lib Dems - I had to take a deep breath to do so, because they haven't quite been forgiven for tuition fees and going into government with the Tories, but these are unusual times which call for unusual measures.

Saw the headline

Project Fear were wrong all along?

Thought that's not right, Project Fear (the Leave version) were right, leaving means we won't get 75 million Turks (or 158 million other EU citizens) flooding our NHS, nor all those immigrants of the Faridge posters, neither the Leave.uk tweet connected with shootings in America.

Project Fear (Remain version) were also right though it depends which side of the economic fence you're on. Hedge Fund Manager made £220 million over night of the 23/24th July – meaning a lot of people lost money.

As for me, OAP with small amount of savings, now earning less interest so income dropped.

Don't take much notice of the newspapers - Express continues to tell me everything is wonderful, Telegraph and Sun the same. Mail occasionally points out not all is well as does the Times. Guardian and Independent think the opposite. 'Twas ever thus. I'll decide a couple of years after we've left.

Smallfox - there is challenging and being down right rude. And at times you were definitely down right rude which certainly isn't part of debate.

We have not left the EU, so it is too soon to say whether Project Fear was wrong in the things it feared, as others have pointed out.

What the Remain camp didn't know would happen, however, and what I personally find terrifying, is that the idiotic vote has left us with a leader that nobody at all elected, and who is rapidly, gleefully, fucking everything up in an attempt to take us back to the 1940s. And even Cameron's lip service to 'the green crap' is discarded now.

I was only ever rude when abuse was handed out to me, which you were quite happy to do, you get dirty if you play in dirt.

Also, some of your reasons were utterly spurious, conscirption to an EU army I seem to remember being a big one, showing that you hadn't done any real research and had swallowed whatever confirmed your bias.

May saying she will use her royal prerogative is a frightening sign of things which may be to come IMO.

She can say she will use her royal prerogative.
It doesn't mean she actually can.

This has yet to be established.

Project Fear were wrong all along?, OP, on the contrary. The term Project Fear perfectly describes decades of anti EU propaganda from a significant sector of the British press, we all know who they are, and then by the likes of Farage, whose mission has consistently been to create hatred towards EU. As a EU citizen living in the UK for over 20 years I must say that the Remain Campaign underestimated the consequences of a Leave vote, not exaggerated them. The surge in racism and xenophobia and the uncertainty for EU citizens like myself who have lived here, paid taxes, raised a family, and now have to try and guess what's going to happen to our future, were not predicted. Most people I know are educated, progressive people who raise a family and contribute to society, yet when we voice legitimate concerns, Leave voters say "it will be just fine". Sorry, but that is just not serious enough. The (unelected) PM is either 1. Playing political games with the future of the country or 2. Doesn't have a clue where she's going, and she's not even trying to reassure us.

I only know a few people who voted Leave, and with no exception they have made racist comments in the past, expressed dismay at my family being bilingual ("shouldn't you speak to your children in English? We are in England!") and looked down on foreigners in general. The latest comment "so you think I should give up my democracy in order for you and your children to travel freely around Europe?" and "you are a racist because you're prioritizing EU citizens over other nationalities, and that makes you racist". These people are relatives of my British husband. I am having sleepless nights thinking of the future, as the rug seems to have been pulled from under my feet.

No, Leave campaign were not wrong after all.

That should read "remain campaign were not wrong", obviously

RedToothBrush I have been reading your posts on the other thread, fantastic work, thank you!

Corcory - why are you bothering with these people? - we're leaving the EU & that's it. They can moan all they like nothing's going to change.
Leave them alone long enough & they'll start arguing with each other.

Here's to freedom

Corcory surfjet

I second your position.

Time shall be better spent to serve our stakeholders / customers in the real world.

another comment from one of the Leavers I know, complaining about immigrants: "but we are only a little island". I completely agree with that now, only a little island which I am preparing to leave. I hope you enjoy your freedom!