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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to agree with the positive Brexit plan below?!

658 replies

MenMust · 29/08/2016 20:27

Having watched a documentary recently about the making of the London Olympics 2012 Opening Ceremony, I was reminded of the sheer skill, innovation and creativity possessed by this nation. This left no doubt in my mind that the UK is completely capable of making a huge success outside the EU.
The first thing the people of the UK need to do is to focus on positive outcomes and opportunities created by the historic decision to leave the EU. Everyone, including those who voted to remain, need to put aside all negativity and differences and anger. Whether you voted to exit or not, it is now going to happen and so all thoughts of doom and disaster are wasted energy and need to be put aside. Pessimism is a self-fulfilling prophesy and if you concentrate on what you think are the negative consequences of Brexit, you will drag the UK down.
Of course there is a risk to exiting the EU. However, there was always a risk to staying in the EU as it is a changing entity. A vote to remain was not a vote for the status quo. The UK will face challenges as it has always done and there will be those who lose out because of Brexit but there will also be those who gain. The EU however also faces an uncertain future. The Euro is in trouble and requires fiscal and budgetary union for any chance of survival. The EU’s economic performance has been poor and its share of world GDP is set to fall. It has failed to keep up with 21st Century globalisation and emerging markets. Further integration is not popular. The EU needs to change radically if it is to survive.
Now the UK has a new PM, Theresa May in place as well as a new Cabinet, the Government needs to appoint the best advisors and negotiators in the land who can help secure the UK the best deal with the EU. The Government should take its time to work out what the best outcome is for the UK before declaring article 50. The UK is in a good position to secure a favourable deal with the EU. We are the biggest importer within the EU and in fact import more from the EU than the USA. It is in the EU’s interest to work with us rather than against us.
The Government needs to ensure that our fishing industry regains rights of fishing areas that it has lost previously under the EU Common Fisheries Policy. EU laws that have had the effect of closing down fishing businesses and communities need to be reviewed.
It is important to remember that, although we have voted to leave the EU, we are still friends with our European neighbours and will continue to maintain a close relationship with them and support them in whatever way we can.
We should now open up to the rest of the world.
Our Government should secure and enhance friendships and relationships with other countries. They need to look at trading partnerships and free trade agreements (FTAs) with all countries we wish to trade with. Australia has already announced it wishes to look at trade deals with the UK. China and India are set to be the future trading powers so we need to start discussions with them. We could possibly forge a link with NAFTA (North American free trade bloc). We should look at our relationship with the Commonwealth and foster trade and agreements with our Commonwealth partners. The EU is the only trading bloc in the world that requires such stringent conditions on its members and this has stifled competition and productivity over a number of years rather than promoting it. We are the sixth largest economy in the world and so other countries will want to do business with us.
Our Government should ease its focus on achieving a balanced budget by 2020. Reducing our debt is still important but should now be done over a longer period and the Government should spend more money on capital projects to help counteract the slowing of growth. It should also look at reducing the tax burden further.
Our police and legal system should stamp down and eradicate racism and racist attacks on our fellow migrants as this is not acceptable. The UK is still a society that welcomes people of all ethnicities, cultures, religions and countries. Racism was not what Brexit was about.
The Government needs to ensure that all project funding commitments by the EU shall be stuck to until we have left the EU. Also, it should ensure that UK organisations and individuals are not discriminated by the EU leading up to our exit.
Once we leave the EU, the Government should commit to funding existing projects previously funded by the EU for at least another three years until it has a department or system in place to make decisions about continuing or ending project funding.
The amount that the UK paid towards the EU budget should be used for capital investment projects within the UK and also for improving and supporting the NHS. The capital projects to improve our infrastructure such as roads will help boost aggregate demand in the UK and help counteract any negative effects on GDP of leaving the EU. The Government should spend money to improve areas of our country that have been neglected or just need fixing.
UK exports will be cheaper due to the reduced value of Sterling. This is an opportunity to promote and increase what we sell to the rest of the world. We must take advantage of this.
UK imports will be more expensive due to the reduced value of Sterling and possible import tariffs. The Government could provide tax breaks to ease the burden on companies that import.
We should focus on buying British goods and supporting our businesses.
We have many of the greatest universities in the world and the Government should invest more via research grants to help boost our universities success even more.
The City of London has great financial institutions and London is one of the world’s top financial centres. It is renowned for its flexibility, resourcefulness, connections, highly skilled workforce, experience. The City with the support of the Government should ensure that it does everything so that it remains one of, if not the most attractive centre for finance in the world.
Finally, we, the UK need to stop underestimating what our country can achieve. Our history has shown what we can do. We still do and will continue to do. We were the pioneers of the industrial revolution. We invented the train, the telephone, the computer, the internet for example. We discovered penicillin, DNA, the laws of gravity. We have Shakepeare, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Charles Darwin, Stephen Hawking, The Beatles, Florence Nightingale, just to name a few! Football, rugby, cricket all came from our country. Our reach and influence is global. We are not a great empire anymore and we have no desire to be but our systems of politics, law, finance are duplicated around the world. So let’s not underestimate ourselves. I have great confidence in our younger generation to continue what previous generations have done. They are bright, intelligent, skilled, energetic, creative. They and older generations have the ability to make a success of our exit from the EU. We all just need to believe in ourselves and remain calm and confident.
We have been in the EU for 43 years, not really a long time in the scheme of things.
So let’s not be afraid and let us take this challenge on and show what we can do!

OP posts:
whatwouldrondo · 05/09/2016 00:57

A not insignificant group of city workers voted leave, maybe Tryings offspring, because they want to get rid of all those trying regulations imposed since the financial crisis and the increased influence of those boring risk and compliance managers, back to the buccaneering days boys! I am sure we are all excited about that.

Tiggy I live in one of the boroughs with the worst school place crisis, it is entirely down to poor LEA planning. Indeed it was planning that relied, for decades, on leaving vast numbers of parents (hundreds) without school places on first allocations so that they would in large numbers be deterred into going private or moving. I know, we were one such family. It is great for ensuring every last school place is taken and the budget best managed , shit (or as our Head of Education put it "unfortunate") if you are affected. It has not, and never has had anything to do with immigration.

whatwouldrondo · 05/09/2016 01:09

Oh and I spent a fair amount of my youth in the 70s drinking vodka in East European community centres just as they came to ceiledhs in the Irish ones, and we all went on to be part of UK society, friends from Polish and Lithuanian backgrounds are now hedge fund managers, dentists, doctors, tax advisers etc etc etc

Bearbehind · 05/09/2016 01:28

surferjet instead of lapping up everything any other Leave voter says just for the sake of it, could you offer us your opinion on the Japanese government's report on Brexit?

Mistigri · 05/09/2016 07:31

A not insignificant group of city workers voted leave, maybe Tryings offspring, because they want to get rid of all those trying regulations imposed since the financial crisis and the increased influence of those boring risk and compliance managers, back to the buccaneering days boys! I am sure we are all excited about that.

That might be true of a small number of hedge find managers many of whom will have had a large bet against sterling riding on the outcome.

City workers are not a homogenous mass: there are plenty of lower paid and back-office workers who probably fit quite well into the leave demographic. I'm not in the city, but in my workplace pretty much everyone in marketing, management and research voted remain but there were pockets of leave voters in back office functions like accounts and shipping where many of the employees are not degree educated. I'd bet that many city firms saw the same type of voting split.

There are also a lot of old school bankers like my dad who are very longtime eurosceptics.

Helmetbymidnight · 05/09/2016 07:47

Agree with mistrigirl, I don't imagine there is any evidence that city workers the majority of whom work in IT, compliance, marketing, hr, admin, etc voted leave or were particularily motivated by financial deregulation.

PattyPenguin · 05/09/2016 08:00

One of the problems in education is that LEA find it difficult to plan not only because immigration make population forecasting hard (that is a fact, not prejudice), but also because the coming of academies and free schools, which are outside LEA, control, has also made planning school place provision very difficult.

whatwouldrondo · 05/09/2016 08:09

Helmet Misti I do work in the city, but not in banking, and I do agree it is not an homogenous mass and that in the main city workers did vote remain but I also highlighted a not insignificant, but I didn't say it was large either, group I talked to who voted leave out of frustration with EU regulation. It was not just the obvious hedge fund managers, but also in private banking / wealth management for instance. I read somewhere, sorry I can't link, that there was a definite split in attitudes to the form Brexit should take between those parts of the City most vulnerable to loss of the passport and the rest, particularly those who see benefits in deregulation, of course the likes of David Davies are listening to the latter.

The city is also a microcosm of London in the sense that whilst you could segment the voters by occupation, you could also segment it by the area that city workers are commuting from, and many do live in those parts of London that voted Leave, travelling into Liverpool Street. That would actually account for all the City Workers I have encountered who voted Leave. I am guessing that they drink with / sit round the dinner table chattering / stand at the school gates with surferjet's community (Surferjet claims to live in London yet knows nobody who voted remain Hmm)

tiggytape · 05/09/2016 08:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheElementsSong · 05/09/2016 09:03

It's fascinating.

....

Remainer: "I think most Leavers voted because of immigration."
Leavers: "No!!! Most Leavers voted because of ! How very dare you imply that all Leavers are racist! Don't you know that suggesting that someone is racist is worse than actually being racist? You're worse than 10,000 Hitlers and should be thrown out of the country etc etc."

....

Leaver: "Most Leavers voted because of immigration! And here's my boneheaded non-evidence of why immigrants are baaaaaad!"
Other Leavers: "Yeahhhhh! Everybody knows that you're right about it all!"
or
Other Leavers: "... What, I was so busy getting on with my life that I conveniently never ever saw such posts!"

TheForeignOffice · 05/09/2016 09:09

Mistigris: [on the fact that a not insignificant group of city workers voted leave] "That might be true of a small number of hedge find managers many of whom will have had a large bet against sterling riding on the outcome."

Yes. Also the people who bet on GOLD. And time for the transcript from an interview with Farage dated January 2015:

kingworldnews.com/nigel-farage-greatest-danger-facing-world-today-gold/

a short extract:

Eric King: “Nigel, you were trading gold for 20 years at the LBMA. It (gold) seems to be coming out the hole a bit here and the world seems to be turning its eyes toward the yellow metal once again.”

Farage: “Yes. It’s had quite a good rally, hasn’t it? I still stick with the view that what you are seeing in gold now is a long-term bottoming action and we will see the price of the ‘Shiney One’ much higher at some point in the future.”
....

Farage has 20 years experience as a gold trader. Just for reference, the price of gold between close of LSE on 23rd June and 2.30pm on 24th June went up precisely 13.15% directly on the Brexit vote (it continued to rise, but I'm just stating the immediate impact). Every trader in the entire world knew that would happen in the event of a Brexit vote. I took a very large hedge out on it myself as the exit polls were so close. Without showing me his original trading account records, there is nobody on this planet that could convince me Farage did not make an absolute personal fortune out of this Brexit vote.

Yes, people voted for different reasons. IMHO, it's perfectly likely Farage's had nothing to do with the UK or EU whatsoever.

whatwouldrondo · 05/09/2016 09:15

Tiggy the point I was making is that there are areas of London where voting leave was the norm, just as there were areas where voting remain was the norm. Within London's sphere of influence / commuting distance there are the boroughs with some of the highest remain and leave votes in the country. Whilst Hackney and Lambeth had one of the highest remain votes, Thurrock had one of the highest leave votes. Whilst I am sure that every voter had a different decision making process, being surrounded by other people who have a particular set of views, and one you hear most frequently expressed, is bound to be an influence. I started to realise that it was all about to go pear shaped when my mother described her polling station as being full of people celebrating the chance to vote to get out of Europe.

surferjet · 05/09/2016 09:21

TheElementsSong

Leaver ( me ). Yes, one of the main reasons I voted leave was because of immigration. The number of people coming into this country needs controlling.

& quite honestly, I couldn't give a fuck what any remain voter thinks of me.

Peregrina · 05/09/2016 09:27

So I take it that you are happy with Mrs May's comments about controlling immigration, surferjet?

TheElementsSong · 05/09/2016 09:30

And you agree that community centres are evidence of insufficient Britishness too, surfer?

Bearbehind · 05/09/2016 09:32

Are you going to comment on the report from the Japanese government surfer?

I would genuinely like to hear your views on the fact that other countries are being very vocal about what they want to happen and it directly conflicts with your desire to restrict immigration.

Bearbehind · 05/09/2016 09:53

^^ same question to menmust too

How do you feel now it's becoming clearer we're not going to be able to have our cake and eat it?

surferjet · 05/09/2016 09:54

Are you going to comment on the report from the Japanese government surfer

No. because next week it will all change.

Brexit negotiations will take years. I don't know about you, but I've got better things to do than spend the next, god knows how many years discussing every twist & turn.

I think you lot should spend more time on Twitter actually, loads of hardcore leavers happy to argue all day. Personally, I think anyone still arguing about Brexit ( from both sides ) probably have far too much time on their hands.

ManonLescaut · 05/09/2016 09:57

I do think deregulation is an issue for more than just hedge funders. Before the financial crisis banks were lobbying for further deregulation as they always do. And I think there's a feeling that the crisis is 'over' and banks want to roll back some regulation if they can. (Of course post-Brexit there's a feeling it must be done to keep the UK competitive).

Across the country, votes depend a great deal on level of education, culture, background & location. I think there's a front/back office across all businesses not just the city.

Ime there certainly seems to be an older generation of bankers who are temperamentally anti-Europe and have issues with globalisation. The city has changed enormously, and some want to get back to the old British institutions like Barings, Warburg and Morgan Grenfell and discuss Empire over port.

Bearbehind · 05/09/2016 10:13

Personally, I think anyone still arguing about Brexit ( from both sides ) probably have far too much time on their hands.

That does rather beg the question 'why are you still here then'?

Having said that, you've never actually 'argued' the case for Leave, more clung onto the shirt tails of any other Leavers comments.

Kaija · 05/09/2016 10:14

I am very much hoping that Surferjet's last post is typical of how most leavers feel, and that the powers that be are taking note: leavers have no interest in how negotiations pan out, so the government can get on with working towards the best outcome for the country and stop trying to appease the hard/far right.

ManonLescaut · 05/09/2016 10:14

I'm so glad that Philipp Hildebrand has stated the bleedin' obvious that a Swiss style for the city is not feasible. The Swiss don't have single market access for financial services and they've been trying for years. Plus the deal is unpopular in Brussels anyway.

ft.com

"Mr Hildebrand warned that leaving the EU would spell an end to London’s role as Europe’s financial services hub during a panel debating the future of the City at Saturday’s inaugural FT Weekend Live Festival at Kenwood House."

"Mr Hildebrand said: “If sovereignty on immigration is the anchor of the government’s strategy, and that’s what you want as the British people, then you have to accept that you will not get passporting, you will not get a financial services agreement. You can get, with skilful negotiation, pretty much open physical trade. But the financial side will be very difficult.”

Peregrina · 05/09/2016 10:26

We have to assume then that in five years time when May hasn't managed to get immigration in total down, that surferjet will be happy.

I always suspect that if you had gone to people who voted Leave two years earlier and asked them what their most pressing concerns were, membership of the EU would not have figured on many peoples' lists, although immigration might well have done.

surferjet · 05/09/2016 10:30

leavers have no interest in how negotiations pan out

As arrogant as I can be sometimes, I don't speak for every leave voter. You have to stop assuming that whatever I say, 17 million people agree with me.

& I didn't say I have no interest in how things pan out. I said I have no interest in discussing every twist & turn - well, not with you anyway.

Tryingtosaveup · 05/09/2016 10:38

It's all very well saying build more schools, but we wouldn't have to if we didn't have all these immigrants. Some schools have a high proportion of immigrant kids, many of whom don't speak English. One school in Nottingham has one child whose mother tongue is English. The rest are immigrants.
To say that 90% or whatever of families got their first choice of school hides the fact that many of those children were immigrant children. The situation in the part of London I know well is ridiculous, and is caused by immigrants, not lack of building or planning.
And the word indigenous is not racist.
Yes the East Europeans may well want to mix with British people but they still want their own culture. They don't want to integrate with us.

Tryingtosaveup · 05/09/2016 10:39

Why bring up the expats in Spain. I do not live in Spain nor do I want to.
The fact that they choose to live like that has no bearing on the immigrant situation here.

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