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Brexit

to agree with the positive Brexit plan below?!

658 replies

MenMust · 29/08/2016 20:27

Having watched a documentary recently about the making of the London Olympics 2012 Opening Ceremony, I was reminded of the sheer skill, innovation and creativity possessed by this nation. This left no doubt in my mind that the UK is completely capable of making a huge success outside the EU.
The first thing the people of the UK need to do is to focus on positive outcomes and opportunities created by the historic decision to leave the EU. Everyone, including those who voted to remain, need to put aside all negativity and differences and anger. Whether you voted to exit or not, it is now going to happen and so all thoughts of doom and disaster are wasted energy and need to be put aside. Pessimism is a self-fulfilling prophesy and if you concentrate on what you think are the negative consequences of Brexit, you will drag the UK down.
Of course there is a risk to exiting the EU. However, there was always a risk to staying in the EU as it is a changing entity. A vote to remain was not a vote for the status quo. The UK will face challenges as it has always done and there will be those who lose out because of Brexit but there will also be those who gain. The EU however also faces an uncertain future. The Euro is in trouble and requires fiscal and budgetary union for any chance of survival. The EU’s economic performance has been poor and its share of world GDP is set to fall. It has failed to keep up with 21st Century globalisation and emerging markets. Further integration is not popular. The EU needs to change radically if it is to survive.
Now the UK has a new PM, Theresa May in place as well as a new Cabinet, the Government needs to appoint the best advisors and negotiators in the land who can help secure the UK the best deal with the EU. The Government should take its time to work out what the best outcome is for the UK before declaring article 50. The UK is in a good position to secure a favourable deal with the EU. We are the biggest importer within the EU and in fact import more from the EU than the USA. It is in the EU’s interest to work with us rather than against us.
The Government needs to ensure that our fishing industry regains rights of fishing areas that it has lost previously under the EU Common Fisheries Policy. EU laws that have had the effect of closing down fishing businesses and communities need to be reviewed.
It is important to remember that, although we have voted to leave the EU, we are still friends with our European neighbours and will continue to maintain a close relationship with them and support them in whatever way we can.
We should now open up to the rest of the world.
Our Government should secure and enhance friendships and relationships with other countries. They need to look at trading partnerships and free trade agreements (FTAs) with all countries we wish to trade with. Australia has already announced it wishes to look at trade deals with the UK. China and India are set to be the future trading powers so we need to start discussions with them. We could possibly forge a link with NAFTA (North American free trade bloc). We should look at our relationship with the Commonwealth and foster trade and agreements with our Commonwealth partners. The EU is the only trading bloc in the world that requires such stringent conditions on its members and this has stifled competition and productivity over a number of years rather than promoting it. We are the sixth largest economy in the world and so other countries will want to do business with us.
Our Government should ease its focus on achieving a balanced budget by 2020. Reducing our debt is still important but should now be done over a longer period and the Government should spend more money on capital projects to help counteract the slowing of growth. It should also look at reducing the tax burden further.
Our police and legal system should stamp down and eradicate racism and racist attacks on our fellow migrants as this is not acceptable. The UK is still a society that welcomes people of all ethnicities, cultures, religions and countries. Racism was not what Brexit was about.
The Government needs to ensure that all project funding commitments by the EU shall be stuck to until we have left the EU. Also, it should ensure that UK organisations and individuals are not discriminated by the EU leading up to our exit.
Once we leave the EU, the Government should commit to funding existing projects previously funded by the EU for at least another three years until it has a department or system in place to make decisions about continuing or ending project funding.
The amount that the UK paid towards the EU budget should be used for capital investment projects within the UK and also for improving and supporting the NHS. The capital projects to improve our infrastructure such as roads will help boost aggregate demand in the UK and help counteract any negative effects on GDP of leaving the EU. The Government should spend money to improve areas of our country that have been neglected or just need fixing.
UK exports will be cheaper due to the reduced value of Sterling. This is an opportunity to promote and increase what we sell to the rest of the world. We must take advantage of this.
UK imports will be more expensive due to the reduced value of Sterling and possible import tariffs. The Government could provide tax breaks to ease the burden on companies that import.
We should focus on buying British goods and supporting our businesses.
We have many of the greatest universities in the world and the Government should invest more via research grants to help boost our universities success even more.
The City of London has great financial institutions and London is one of the world’s top financial centres. It is renowned for its flexibility, resourcefulness, connections, highly skilled workforce, experience. The City with the support of the Government should ensure that it does everything so that it remains one of, if not the most attractive centre for finance in the world.
Finally, we, the UK need to stop underestimating what our country can achieve. Our history has shown what we can do. We still do and will continue to do. We were the pioneers of the industrial revolution. We invented the train, the telephone, the computer, the internet for example. We discovered penicillin, DNA, the laws of gravity. We have Shakepeare, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Charles Darwin, Stephen Hawking, The Beatles, Florence Nightingale, just to name a few! Football, rugby, cricket all came from our country. Our reach and influence is global. We are not a great empire anymore and we have no desire to be but our systems of politics, law, finance are duplicated around the world. So let’s not underestimate ourselves. I have great confidence in our younger generation to continue what previous generations have done. They are bright, intelligent, skilled, energetic, creative. They and older generations have the ability to make a success of our exit from the EU. We all just need to believe in ourselves and remain calm and confident.
We have been in the EU for 43 years, not really a long time in the scheme of things.
So let’s not be afraid and let us take this challenge on and show what we can do!

OP posts:
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Mistigri · 06/09/2016 16:48

Re negotiations and A50, formal binding negotiations can't be started without triggering A50. But the likelihood is that the government will want some idea of what can and cannot be achieved before triggering A50 (assuming that May and other Tories with their heads screwed on can keep control of the la-la-land wing of the party).

There will be many parliamentary votes before all this is sorted out. Not necessarily regarding triggering A50 (though let's wait and see what the courts say), but the process will involve a government with a very slim majority and a depleted civil service shepherding large amounts of legislation through Parliament.

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Mistigri · 06/09/2016 16:50

those countries would be countries who gained independence from us in the past

We're not a post-colonial nation seeking independence from colonial masters though. We're leaving a trading bloc. It's a very different legal, constitutuonal and practical question.

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Corcory · 06/09/2016 16:57

If it as just a trading block then that would be straight forward but it isn't is it. We have laws, rules and regulations in common on a multitude of things so I think that we do as they used to when a country gained independence.

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smallfox2002 · 06/09/2016 17:00

All trading blocs have laws in common and give up some sovereignty. You know you have to enact wto regulations and allow them decision making powers to be a member?

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Mistigri · 06/09/2016 17:04

All trading blocs require some transfer of sovereignty. Trade agreements these days are primarily aimed at reducing non-tariff barriers and that requires alignment of a whole host of legislation regarding things like customs procedures, product and trading standards etc. It is not possible to retain complete sovereignty and be part of a trading bloc.

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smallfox2002 · 06/09/2016 17:10

Cross post with misti.

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Mistigri · 06/09/2016 17:15

If the UK's relationship with the EU can't be described as membership of a trading bloc, what is it? We are not in the eurozone nor inside Schenghen. In fact the UK has in many respects more sovereignty than EEA members, as it has a seat at the table and a series of opt-outs.

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Dapplegrey2 · 06/09/2016 17:17

Add message | Report | Message poster Petronius16 Tue 06-Sep-16 14:24:46
Corcoran the only laws in this country are UK ones passed by our Parliament. There are no separate EU ones.

What about the law banning greengrocers etc from selling food in lbs and ounces?

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TheElementsSong · 06/09/2016 17:28

What about the law banning greengrocers etc from selling food in lbs and ounces?

IIRC there isn't one.

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Dapplegrey2 · 06/09/2016 17:37

From BBC news.

Mr Thoburn became famous after his scales were seized from his market stall by Trading Standards officers who caught him selling bananas by the pound.
It triggered a legal battle in which he was joined by four other traders - from London, Cornwall and Surrey - to fight European regulations requiring food traders to sell produce in metric measuremen

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Peregrina · 06/09/2016 17:42

According to this, it's not quite so simple. Yes, you have to sell in metric, but there is nothing to stop you displaying imperial measurements, and furthermore, the UK went further than required by the EU.


www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3258360/Metric-vs-imperial-How-the-law-stands.html

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Corcory · 06/09/2016 17:44

It's a union if it was a trading block it would still be called the Common Market.
We have loads of laws, rules and regulations which have little to do with trade such as environmental laws and employment laws.

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Corcory · 06/09/2016 17:47

It's a union if it was a trading block it would still be called the Common Market.
We have loads of laws, rules and regulations which have little to do with trade such as environmental laws and employment laws.

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TheElementsSong · 06/09/2016 17:49

www.metric.org.uk/myths/consumer-protection

(1) It is only imperial-only selling that is illegal.

"In 2000, it became a legal requirement to weigh and measure loose goods in metric and to provide metric price labelling. Thus every fishmonger, butcher or greengrocer should use metric weighing machines and provide a metric unit price.

Additionally, it is permitted to show an equivalent ‘supplementary indication’ in imperial providing it is no more prominent than the metric price. Supplementary indications were supposed to be phased by the end of 2009 under the units of measurement Directive 80/181/EEC.

In September 2007, the European Commission proposed authorising the use of supplementary indications indefinitely which was subsequently adopted and the Directive revised accordingly. This was widely reported as a return to imperial.

The reality is that there is no change. UK law still requires the use of metric measurement and pricing. Weighing machines that use pounds and ounces remain illegal as is imperial-only pricing."

(2) It is not strictly the EU that has introduced this cruel oppression.

"British weights and measures legislation has always made it a criminal offence to use units 'not approved for trade'."

(3) Mr Thoburn was convicted of using an illegal weighing machine which was not stamped by a Weights and Measures Inspector because it only showed imperial units.

"In order to ensure that the public gets accurately weighed goods, the type of weighing machine at the point of sale must be approved and regularly checked. It has always been the case that approved equipment only use units that are legal for trade. Since the year 2000 the units allowed for the sale of loose goods have been metric only. Prices of loose goods are also required to be labelled in metric. Imperial conversions are allowed in addition for assistance.

A customer is allowed to ask for loose goods by the pound but the shopkeeper is required to weigh the goods using metric scales. In any case, most people order bananas by the bunch rather than by the weight and the price of the bunch is calculated from the weight and unit price."

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ToxicLadybird · 06/09/2016 17:52

When I did my law degree I was taught that it was the UK government that insisted on the rules for metric but let the EU take the blame.

The government had been trying to bring it in for forever but were getting nowhere in terms of public support. EU membership required metrification but they offered the UK a pass on it. The government rejected the pass and made out to the public that it was all the EU's fault, all the while sitting back and rubbing their hands with glee at finally getting what they wanted.

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Mistigri · 06/09/2016 17:52

Environmental laws are very definitely a trading matter. If environmental laws like vehicle emissions legislation were not common to the whole EU, it would create barriers to trade. Ditto employment law. If you have trading agreements that cover services, then you need to ensure that no one can take unfair advantage. As it is, employment is only rather lightly controlled by the EU, which sets minimum standards that even the UK exceeds in many respects (or has opted out of).

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Corcory · 06/09/2016 18:06

Not all environmental laws are to do with goods we sell. There are rules and regulations about cleanliness of beaches etc. So if you have a trading agreement with another country then you can insist on all their workers having the same maternity rights and paid holiday rights as us?

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Peregrina · 06/09/2016 18:28

The government rejected the pass and made out to the public that it was all the EU's fault, all the while sitting back and rubbing their hands with glee at finally getting what they wanted.

It strikes me that they have done that with a lot of things.

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ToxicLadybird · 06/09/2016 18:39

They have indeed. They're also quite fond of letting the EU take the blame for government decision on human rights. Decisions by the European Court of Human Rights are NOT binding on the UK and have nothing to do with the EU at all. The government CHOOSES to abide by its decisions and again sits back and lets the EU get all the flack. It's actually quite scary.

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IAmNotTheMessiah · 06/09/2016 18:39

Ah, o you want us to be able to pollute our beaches again.

How lovely Hmm

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Corcory · 06/09/2016 19:55

Messiah - read the whole thread - I am suggesting we adopt all the EU laws, rules and regs. on mass and then later decide which ones we want to change. So no I don't want to pollute our beaches!

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Mistigri · 06/09/2016 20:01

Not all environmental laws are to do with goods we sell. There are rules and regulations about cleanliness of beaches etc. So if you have a trading agreement with another country then you can insist on all their workers having the same maternity rights and paid holiday rights as us?

If you voted leave because you would prefer to swim in water polluted with human faeces, then there is no point trying to have any sort of rational debate with you.

EU legislation on employment rights is pretty basic: most of the richer EU states, including the UK, exceed the minimum requirements, and the UK has opt-outs on the working time directive.

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IAmNotTheMessiah · 06/09/2016 20:02

But the only law/rule/regulation that you can come up with that isn't about standardising trade is one that keeps our beaches clean.

It's hardly a great argument for "taking back control"...

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Peregrina · 06/09/2016 20:36

What I suspect will happen with the beaches is that if Local Authorities are still starved of cash, they will just let sewage plants fall into disrepair, so we will see a gradual return to dirty beaches. I remember them well from the 1950s.

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Petronius16 · 06/09/2016 20:57

DappleGrey2 UK's Metrication Board was set up in 1968, long before we joined the EU.

Our town's independent greengrocer's price signs are still in pound weight.

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