LEAVERS - update on the 'invoke A50 now' petition. I have the reply.

[Surferjet]

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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Dear xxxxxx

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

Government responded:

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives.

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. The process for leaving the EU and determining our future relationship will be a complex one, so we need to take time to think through our objectives and approach. We want to ensure the best possible outcome for Britain and the future UK-EU relationship. As part of this, the government will of course work closely with the devolved administrations to ensure we get the best deal for the UK as a whole. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives, so Article 50 should not be invoked before the end of this year.

Department for Exiting the European Union

Click this link to view the response online:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618?reveal_response=yes

This petition has over 100,000 signatures. The Petitions Committee will consider it for a debate. They can also gather further evidence and press the government for action.

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Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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sorry - Leave.EU's social media campaign that should have said

lol smallfox, & you're not a dominant force on these threads?

You've barely left this board in the past two months.

The irony of Small and her acolytes talking about bullying! You couldn't make it up as for neutrality Small you have driven off everyone who has tried to discuss the referendum with dubious facts, dogmatic assertions and name calling.

Surfer, those posters were here whatever time of day or night it so it appears. Posts from 4 am right round to 3 am the next night.

I'm going to laugh at your bulling accusation. How do I bully you?

I don't know the posters you're talking about tbh, I didn't join these threads untill the day before the referendum & hadn't read any threads previous to that.
But it's not uncommon for new posters to appear in the run up to general elections, once the election is over their job is done & off they go. pretty standard really.

& as for the bullying - I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not intimidated by you in the slightest, I don't much care for your style of posting as it lacks all the things I quite like, but you're not here to impress me. you have an agenda & want to verbally bash people over the head with it. But yeah, you annoyed me at the start & did wind me up a bit, but now your posts are like a stuck record & a bit boring.

"Small you have driven off everyone who has tried to discuss the referendum with dubious facts, dogmatic assertions and name calling."

There's a confusing grammatical ambiguity in this sentence - I don't know whether to refute it or agree wholeheartedly

😆

Elements. And may I congratulate you on using the word 'effulgent'?

smallfox, paid? I thought I was a big cynic but I hadn't thought of that... but it does make sense.

I suppose it is a self selected group in the sense that only those who are really bothered by the outcome are still here.

I don't understand this. Are Leave voters not keen to debate the form that Brexit will take? Having voted for massive change (arguably the biggest upheaval since the 1950s), are they just happy to step back and let others decide?

Leave voters are keen to debate Brexit - just not with people who keep calling them thick idiots.

In my experience (both online and in real life) Leave voters don't want to discuss Brexit. The responses I have had have all been along the lines of "it's up to the government to work it out now", "it wasn't up to the Leave campaign to have a plan", "debating the terms will prejudice the negotiations" and "it will be all right, as it was before we joined" etc.

Those Leave plants that have disappeared were never looking for a debate - they refused to take part in any kind of discussion, merely repeatedly, and forcibly, posted lies and soundbites, saying that anyone supporting remain must love Cameron, or some other such nonsense.

Back in April there were actually a few civilised discussions taking place, but then these posters took over the board to shut down that sort of thing. The fact that they don't care to discuss the ramifications is quite telling.

The threads for the Leave voters to discuss what they voted for and why, and what they thought they were getting, started off as people genuinely asking for reasons. They went downhill because virtually nobody was able to come up with anything that stood up to a moment's thought.

I'd love to know where you get all your facts Small. You seem to have some amazing knowledge that the rest of us are not privy too about this Brexit Lite you are so keen to have us suck it up! You seem to think that it is all sooo funny, gloating as I've said before.
WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS SMALL.

I've seen no bullying. Challenges, yes. Requests for explanations, yes. Bullying, no.

tiggy, I can't agree with that. I've been on, and seen, many many threads where Remainers have calmly asked Leavers for answers to questions, or evidence to back up statements, and been met with abuse or accusations or incoherence. They have been the ones to close down effective discussion.

'demanding that they explain themselves (preferably with graphs. links and definitive proof)' is not so scandalous a thing to do (and I question your choice of the word 'demanding' actually; see my first point). How else should a reasoned debate proceed but with the use of persuasive evidence?

In my honest experience here, Remainers have been willing to talk calmly and to provide evidence and backup; Leavers have gone for accusations, appeals to emotion, hearsay and plain untruths. A debate that wants to be serious and meaningful must challenge these things.

The threads for the Leave voters to discuss what they voted for and why, and what they thought they were getting, started off as people genuinely asking for reasons. They went downhill because virtually nobody was able to come up with anything that stood up to a moment's thought.

I agree. This is why remain voters get genuinely annoyed; there is no clear vision from the leave camp, no plan, no detail, nothing that stands up to any scrutiny - just blind faith that other people will sort it all out.

I'd like to know where smallfox gets her facts from, she seems way too over invested in this & has an answer for everything, almost as if she has a file full of potential replies. I know this is an extremely important event, but most ordinary people are just getting on with their lives now.
We've had the referendum - leave won. That's it. 'Brexit' is now in the hands of our politicians.

I have tried to have a debate with Leave voters in real life. They were mostly very subdued and really didn't know what to expect. One sensible response was that although it was the EU which had forced us to clean up our beaches, we weren't going to go and rip out new sewage plants and go back to pumping sewage into the sea, just because we could now.

We did have a longish thread about a month ago where people complained about EU regulations. In most cases the UK government had endorsed them, so they became UK regulations and might have been introduced in similar form anyway. In other cases, it wasn't the EU but the way the UK government had implemented them e.g. with the fishing quotas. In other cases it was often as a result of Health and Safety legislation, which some people objected to, but most would agree that not having deaths and serious injuries in the workplace is beneficial.

I would agree that the EU hasn't tackled the refugee crisis well, but then Farage sought to link it to UK immigration with his offensive poster.

It was very hard to see exactly where the EU had failed people. It's also a fact that most leading Leave campaigners have been very quiet since then, or said things which can be shown to be rubbish.

surfer, it's just being politically engaged and interested. 'getting on with our lives' –well, our lives may well all be changed greatly by Brexit and I, for one, would like to be involved or at least to keep myself informed about it.

The Leave side, as far as I can tell, is made up of several mini-camps all of whom want different things from Leave. If I had voted Leave I wouldn't be so relaxed about leaving it all to the politicians –I'd want to be kept informed of what they were doing at every turn, and I'd want a say. In fact, as a Remainer I want that.

We elect our politicians on the understanding/in the hope that they will carry out our wishes while simultaneously protecting the country's best interests; we don't just leave them to get on with it without letting them hear our opinions. Or we shouldn't, anyway.

Of course, but I pay politicians to do a job, I didn't vote leave and expect to deliver Brexit myself.
If they don't do what the majority voted for we'll decide what to do from there, but as it stands at the moment Brexit means Brexit.

"Brexit means Brexit"

Ding ding ding!

Yes, that's informative.

That's it. 'Brexit' is now in the hands of our politicians.

Some of whom were proved to be liars: e.g. £350 million goes to the EU each week, a lie in itself. Let's spend it on the NHS. The day after the disingenuous response: oh, but we didn't say we would spend it on the NHS.

Are these really the sort of people you want to put implicit trust in? If their plans for Leave are sound, they should have no difficulty in defending them, but as I have already said, they seem remarkably quiet. For people like BoJo it was just a game anyway, and a gamble on his part to get the PM's job.