LEAVERS - update on the 'invoke A50 now' petition. I have the reply.

[Surferjet]

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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Dear xxxxxx

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

Government responded:

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives.

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. The process for leaving the EU and determining our future relationship will be a complex one, so we need to take time to think through our objectives and approach. We want to ensure the best possible outcome for Britain and the future UK-EU relationship. As part of this, the government will of course work closely with the devolved administrations to ensure we get the best deal for the UK as a whole. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives, so Article 50 should not be invoked before the end of this year.

Department for Exiting the European Union

Click this link to view the response online:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618?reveal_response=yes

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Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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surfer, much as I don't think you're stupid, I am starting to think more and more that you're just not reading this thread properly.

Many many posters, many many times, have acknowledged that the result was 'leave the EU'. This discussion is not about who won and who lost.

The next point they/we've made, and question they've asked, is 'what now?' Because the Leave campaign didn't at the time, and hasn't yet, presented us the electorate with a PLAN.

Leave voters wanted different things. As far as anyone can tell from the news and reports coming from Westminster, those in the government itself want different things; there is talk of a 'hard Brexit' involving leaving the EU single market totally, and of a range of softer options including a Norway-style deal or a Switzerland-style deal, or a bespoke deal that's a mix of these and other criteria/conditions... It is far from cut and dried what is actually going to happen when we leave.

This has been asked so many times, in various ways, on this thread but I'll ask again: what do you, as a Leave voter, want, and how do you intend to make your voice heard?

But someone has to lose eventually? in any referendum/election/ someone wins & someone loses.

FFS. Its not about winning or losing. Its about trying to get the best deal NOW for the best interests of the majority of the country.

THIS IS NOT A FUCKING GAME. Its about the long term future where winners and losers are you call it haven't even been born yet, so the idea that they could somehow vote is beside the point.

We are all on the same one way street now.

Its about working out exactly what that looks like, and making sure that we aren't about to have a national car crash because the people doing it are drunk and wearing blindfolds because they believe that the sat nav will get them there just fine.

That's kind of where we are right now as a nation.

The worse bit is, that I'm trying to point out, is the ones about to get hurt worst in that car crash are the ones who got into the car with the politicians going 'it'll all be fine, cos we believe too'.

They don't have to be the ones driving policy and coming up with the plan but they could all get on the bus with the qualified driver, who is a bit slower, less attractive and probably stinks a bit from lack of investment. There is always someone you really would rather not sit next too, but always is the only seat left available. Heaven forbid if they start talking to you.

I guess it depends on whether you want to get to the destination at the end of the street in one piece safety or just hitting that truck coming the other way that your blind drunk idiot of a believing politician didn't see coming.

And no those of us on the bus didn't want to go to that destination much either, but the service in the other direction got cancelled and we can all sit here waiting for it forever or just try and get on with it and try and go SOMEWHERE.

what do you, as a Leave voter, want, and how do you intend to make your voice heard?

1)Hard Brexit.
2)wait & see what's presented to us & take it from there.

What does hard Brexit mean to you?

What 3 things would you like to see happen once Brexit happens?

x posts Red, yes I agree, it's where we go from here. ( although remainers did want a 2nd referendum )
May I ask what you're doing to make your voice heard? What sort of Brexit do you want?

However I think there is a long term perspective to this which helps explain why Britain differs from the rest of Europe. Even countries like Germany, France, Italy and Spain that had empires were post war divested of them (for obvious reasons) whilst in the UK a whole baby boomer generation grew up still being fed the jingoism typified by "This Island Story".

I think it's a bit more subtle than that, although I agree in essence. Germany was only united in the mid 19th century and never really established an empire. Spain lost its empire earlier, mostly in the early part of the 19th century. The British Empire took until post war to start granting independence although had given autonomy to Dominions earlier. France was losing its empire at the same time as the UK was losing its empire, but it tended to be regionally concentrated in north and west Africa and Indo-china.

Then to add to the mix, Germany, Italy, Spain, and Portugal had all known dictatorships, which the UK hadn't, and France had had Vichy France.

Just as a total aside, as schoolchildren in about 1958 we made Union jack flags for Empire day and paraded round the school playground. We lived in Wales too and my mother, by no means a Welsh nationalist said rather tartly that we now had a Commonwealth, and the Empire had gone. I don't think she was very impressed with the teachers. Although Spain especially retains strong links to south America, I don't think anywhere else has created a Commonwealth. (So it's almost as though we couldn't quite let go even then.)

surfer how can a 'hard Brexit' be achieved?

What do you think it will look like and how can the incompatible elements such as GFA and passporting be overcome?

Every time you post I get more and more despondent as I think it's very likely a huge proportion of the Leave electorate think as you do- or more accurately, fail to think, as you do.

The thing is with the second referendum is that even those leading leaving the EU said that if there was a small majority for remain that it would leave unfinished business.

I certainly think that the 3% definitely constitutes a small majority, and it leaves unfinished business.

surfer, I'd echo Bears question about the seemingly incompatible elements inherent in, well, any kind of Brexit, but a harder one is going to be more difficult to reconcile.

I'd also add, how in your opinion do Scotland and Northern Ireland fit in?

surfer, if only to shut us all up, please give us an example of an EU rule 'forced upon' the UK to our detriment.

Surely that's not difficult to do if you think we Remainers are happy for it to continue?

Bear- I've asked Surfer that on and off since the day after the referendum, but she hasn't been able to come up with anything..........

surferjet Mon 22-Aug-16
x posts Red, yes I agree, it's where we go from here. ( although remainers did want a 2nd referendum )

ER NO I DON'T. NEITHER DO A LOT OF REMAIN VOTERS.

May I ask what you're doing to make your voice heard? What sort of Brexit do you want?

Soft Brexit. Similar to Norway deal seems best and only really workable solution which doesn't blow a leg off us as a nation in an act of shooting ourselves in the foot. Single market essential and non-negotiable.

Campaigning, group brainstorming, getting political, writing to MP, networking with similar minded people, drawing awareness to crucial problems in the hope that people will think about them and consider solutions, finding out about options available, trying to think of my own ideas for policy. Considering blogging. Trying to engage with leave voters to find common interests and goals. Trying to do my best to understand the working of the EU and trade agreements etc so I can have a meaningful conversation about this. Trying to understand British law, and how this might affect what options are available to us. Will seriously consider protesting if the plan we look like we will get is that dreadful.

You?

Clearly Leavers know something the rest of the World and Britain doesn't.

Most countries have been striving for closer relationships, trade deals, working in unity, rather than separately.
37% of adults in the UK, particularly England, are convinced they will be better off going alone. Some, not even to keep trade deals. I just wish I could understand that brilliant insight.

BTW, I wonder what the results would be if the questions had been:
A) stay
B) leave

if B:
i) keep trade agreements, but stop free movement
ii) hard exit

or:
A) remain
B) leave, but keep in mind that there is no actual plan as to how.

1)Hard Brexit.
2)wait & see what's presented to us & take it from there

Dear god! So let's get out out out, and then see what being out looks like, and then just .... See? Seriously?

they never sound very bright do they?

Thanks surfer. Can I ask what you mean by 'take it from there'?

I'm frustrated with various aspects of my life, so what I'm going to do is burn my house, with all my stuff in it, leave my partner, abandon my kids, resign from my job .... And then just take it from there and wait and see what things look like. Nobody knows what the future holds, after all! And anybody who says I shouldn't do that is basically calling me stupid, which is very offensive to me.

To be fair to Surferjet, I think it was meant as
I want a hard exit, and if I don't get it, then I'll see what I can do to put further pressure on the government to make a hard exit happen.

The problem being that not all brexiters want a hard exit.

Leaving can mean lots of things. If the choice was clearly between a hard exit and to remain, I suspect Remain would have won.

surfer, if only to shut us all up, please give us an example of an EU rule 'forced upon' the UK to our detriment

Maybe you should talk to a few fishermen and ask them if they're happy with rules the EU has forced on them.

At least there are fish to catch- if the UK had carried on the way they were fishing before the EU the North Sea would be a desert.

Dear god! So let's get out out out, and then see what being out looks like, and then just .... See? Seriously?

I was asked what I'm doing to get the Brexit I want ( hard Brexit ) I said I'm not doing anything atm because nothing has been presented to us. I might get what I want? If I don't I'll take it from there.

As bertrand said, that wasn't detrimental to the UK.

I might get what I want? If I don't I'll take it from there.

What DO you want FFS? I've yet to see you say?

I was asked what I'm doing to get the Brexit I want ( hard Brexit )

No immigrants, I think that's code for.

EU quotas were imposed following disastrous crashes in fish species populations. All member states have quotas, but the states' governments allocate them. So it's the UK government which is responsible for only three companies holding 61% of UK quotas and for 44% of English and Welsh stocks being owned by foreign companies.