LEAVERS - update on the 'invoke A50 now' petition. I have the reply.

[Surferjet]

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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Dear xxxxxx

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

Government responded:

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives.

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. The process for leaving the EU and determining our future relationship will be a complex one, so we need to take time to think through our objectives and approach. We want to ensure the best possible outcome for Britain and the future UK-EU relationship. As part of this, the government will of course work closely with the devolved administrations to ensure we get the best deal for the UK as a whole. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives, so Article 50 should not be invoked before the end of this year.

Department for Exiting the European Union

Click this link to view the response online:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618?reveal_response=yes

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Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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smallfox, I'm sure you know what the EU had for breakfast, seeing as your head is so far up its arse.

And yet, we kept being told, it is Remainers who are mean, name-calling, bullies etc

No, ( although I can't ) I'm just not up for this.

Up for what? Genuine question. Up for a debate? I'm not sure about that; you have opinions and have spent quite some time giving them on this thread.

Leave it standing.

I do know how the EU works, thanks and therefore was able to make decisions based on facts, not ridiculous statements.

But it does kind of sum you up, and the intellectual credibility of your arguments that you did make decisions based on assertions that are untrue.

surfer, what are you 'not up for'?

Actually answering a question that's asked of you?

That's an excellent way to defend your position.

How hard is it to name an EU law forced upon the UK if you believe it's true?

We've been taken over by people who don't know how this country is run or works.

They are called the Tory Party.

See: British Bill of Right and NI HRA and Liz Truss
See: Trade Agreements and David Davies.
See: International Diplomacy and Boris Johnson.
See: International Diplomacy, China and Theresa May.
See: Trade Agreements and Liam Fox
See: Majorities and Lord Ashcroft (who is good at polling and still can't manage this)
See: Referendum Questions and Iain Duncan Smith.

Joy. We are lead by a bunch of fucking idiots and the only one able to oppose this and draw attention to it, is an even bigger fucking idiot.

I, for one, am starting to think that we need a dictatorship in this country as democracy clearly is not working.

Having not been back here for a while I must confess to being shocked that the Remainers are STILL moaning, STILL puffed up with an unwarranted feeling of superiority, STILL intimating directly, or indirectly that Leavers are collectively thick, racist and xenophobic, are STILL demanding Leavers to answer all their questions in the manner of a teacher in a school for backward delinquents, are STILL praying to any or all gods that Brexit won't happen etc.

I've read nothing new on this or other recent threads, so feel safe to leave you all to it, assuming if I return in 3 months, nothing will have changed.

To the Leavers on this thread - I offer and perhaps should point out you may as well go and bash your head against a brick wall for all the good it will do you to respond on here.

Its hilarious surfer, you are the archetypal leave voter, swayed by the propaganda and myths, repeater of baseless assertions designed to be emotive rather than factual.

You didn't know what you were voting for, you certainly aren't going to get what you want and you're not smart enough to work out why.

Having not been back here for a while I must confess to being shocked that the Remainers are STILL moaning, STILL puffed up with an unwarranted feeling of superiority, STILL intimating directly, or indirectly that Leavers are collectively thick, racist and xenophobic, are STILL demanding Leavers to answer all their questions in the manner of a teacher in a school for backward delinquents, are STILL praying to any or all gods that Brexit won't happen etc.

And your Brexit plan is.....?

You think that which option on the table is in the best interests of the country is...?

Yep. Honestly I'm moaning. Not wanting to know what the fuck is going to happen next and what the fuck the future is.

But still. As you were.

RortyCrankle

Now, that was a hilarious post.

No Brexiter has offered a valid reason to want to leave the EU. Most arguments are either very vague, hopeful, or just easily debunked (yes, including not knowing who is in Brussels, or not voting personally for many of them - in the UK you only vote for your own MP).

You're right smallfox2002 I'm not as intelligent as you, probably no where near.
But if remain had won I would have accepted it with dignity.

But thing is dear, since we live in a democracy ( you know the one that you hold dear) we can challenge and debate issues, we don't have to shut up.

"But if remain had won I would have accepted it with dignity."

What does that actually mean? Never expressing your views ever again? I do hope you wouldn't have done that- that is not what democracy and free speech is about.

Surfer, I don't think its about intelligence.

I think there are plenty in the Tory party leading Brexit who are intelligent. The trouble is they lack knowledge about certain areas. And those certain areas are very critical to what we are taking about.

This is why the statement about experts coming from a politician is so alarming. These are intelligent people who power ignoring people with knowledge about the working structures of things because of ideologically which if applied is going to have a massively negative impact on, well EVERYTHING.

Change, is a good thing as far as I am concerned, however you have to understand what a problem is, in order to know how to make improvements and change the system. If you fail to understand the problem in the first place you are doomed to fail.

If you willing don't want to listen to people telling you about the issue in order to understand that problem and instead say they are just 'bullying' because they don't agree with you and you can't provide an alternative bit of evidence to back up what you are saying, then fuck me we are all in trouble.

And those who are leading us all to it - are not you and old Rorty up there - its them pesky politicians who need holding to account.

BY YOU AS WELL AS ME.

But if remain had won I would have accepted it with dignity

That sums up your naivety with this situation.

You seem to think that, now the vote is over that's the end of it.

Has nothing you've read on here sunk in at all?

surfer, it's not really about intelligence. Anyone can find and understand some of the facts if they want them. And actually, I'm not going to accept your claim about your intelligence. I'm going to assume that you're not 'thick, racist [or] xenophobic' as Rorty would have it.

You've been presented with links and facts on this thread, to help you understand the issues (if indeed you aren't capable of finding them yourself, which as above I dispute).

And it is not about just 'accepting' the outcome of a referendum. Can you see –this is a genuine question, not being snarky – that this is only the start of a long and complex leaving process? Do you think all Leave voters wanted the same from this? Do you wish, as a citizen of a democratic country, to have your say in what happens now?

sapphire excellent points about parliamentary democracy v plebiscite, and Council of Ministers.

I hate referendums; my belief is that they have no place in any representative democracy. Brexit was not a decision that should have been taken by non-experts. I wonder what percentage of Leave voters could name any of the EU's institutions, or could state the difference between supranational and intergovernmental?

Yoko, lack of knowledge about the EU and how it works was a key factor in the result, IMO. Either stoked or reflected (or likely both) by both government (successive ones) and sections of the media.

I don't think you are thick Surfer. I really don't.

I wouldn't waste my time trying to tell you, that you need to be concerned now, if I did.

I think the 'thick' narrative just serves some Leavers to not think beyond the vote and that the actual outcome will be. They want a situation where they can be perpetually hard done by as it suits.

Stepping up and realising that there is so much work still to be done and putting aside how you vote and looking for problems and solutions together is where its at now.

Accept what with dignity? Nobody knows what it is we are supposed to be accepting, and from the advice of those actually with any expertise on the global economy and balance of political power, including my own experience living and working in it, the options come somewhere between shooting ourselves in the foot and jumping off a cliff. I have children experiencing that cold hard reality already. Why on earth would I accept self destructive behaviour with dignity?

But if remain had won I would have accepted it with dignity.

Surfer, that shows the depth of your convictions then. Many of us believe that Brexit is so unacceptable that we're willing to argue against it, demonstrate against it and write to our MPs about it for as long as it takes.

I think it's becoming very clear what Brexit will cost the country financially. I don't believe we will gain sufficiently from leaving the EU to make the damage to our economy worthwhile. I don't want to see our country to go into recession while lawyers and negotiators fill their pockets, I don't want things to be 'on hold' indefinitely because there wasn't even the glimmer of a plan for how Brexit will work. And I certainly don't want A50 triggered before the major issues are thoroughly and democratically debated and resolved.

I would, possibly, be able to 'accept' the referendum outcome if we had good negotiators, a well thought-out plan and an economy that was strong enough to take the inevitable hit. I would be able to 'accept' it, possibly, if we had a competent team of people with sufficient vision to take this forward in an expedient way - people who actually knew what they were talking about and weren't so keen to dismiss experts (like Prof Michael Dougan) as 'unnecessary'. In the absence of those things, I'll carry on 'complaining'.

I won't bother linking as its a Daily Mail article but Katie Hopkins latest is a real gem.

An ardent Leave supporter, she's realised nothing is happening and thinks the solution is to remove the 2 year deadline on A50.

It does nothing to further Leaves argument when their supporters make comments as ridiculous as this.

And then they wonder why Remain think Leave voted for unicorns?

But someone has to lose eventually? in any referendum/election/ someone wins & someone loses. Yes of course you can protest, set up petitions, write angry letters, that's your democratic right, but what's your objective? To overturn the original vote & become the 'winners' - where does it end?
& yes, I would have accepted the referendum result if it hadn't gone my way - because trying to overturn a majority vote just isn't in my soul.

You really don't get this do you surfer?

It's not about overturning the vote- it's about trying to make sure that Brexit happens in the least damaging way possible. About trying to contribute to the process. And not saying, surfer, as you did once, that you haveno idea how the process is going to work or what will happen next, but that's OK because you trust our leaders...........