LEAVERS - update on the 'invoke A50 now' petition. I have the reply.

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Dear xxxxxx

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

Government responded:

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives.

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. The process for leaving the EU and determining our future relationship will be a complex one, so we need to take time to think through our objectives and approach. We want to ensure the best possible outcome for Britain and the future UK-EU relationship. As part of this, the government will of course work closely with the devolved administrations to ensure we get the best deal for the UK as a whole. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives, so Article 50 should not be invoked before the end of this year.

Department for Exiting the European Union

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Bear - you wrote 'It's an absolute disgrace that Leave have no fucking idea what they want the future to look like and completely wash their hands of anything that might suffer in the quest to get to their undefined Utopia and dismiss it as not being their fucking monkey' I say again Soover wrote that, nothing at all to do with the Leave Campaign.

corcory, do you need it pointed out in very simple terms that I was using soover as an example of Leave, not the whole electorate.

Christ this is beyond a joke now.

Still, it does kind of show that the leave campaign didn't really take it into account, and still aren't.

Unicorns for all wasn't it?

What do you think Leave want to future to look like with reference to Brexit and NI, Corcory?

Sorry - the future

What do you think of the 'monkey' comment from a fellow Leaver corcory?

Are you happy to be associated with it?

To be fair I read Cocory's reasons for leaving and thought that must be a joke too. No one, and I mean no one, who had actually taken more than half an hour to do some reading on the referendum could have had the faintest claim to think that there would be an EU army with conscription.

I don't agree with the circus and monkey comment. That is why I don't feel it should be spun by Bear into something that the whole Leave Campaign believe.
I genuinely don't know enough to comment on the Good Friday Agreement and Brexit.

I genuinely don't know enough to comment on the Good Friday Agreement and Brexit

Does it not concern you that your vote helped light the touch paper on something potentially catestrpohic that you 'genuinely don't know about'?

Fair enough re the 'circus/ monkey' comment but it didn't take a genius to work out I was questioning soover not insisting every leave voter thinks this.

Having said that, given Leave, as a group, are giving no indication of what they do want or how it will be achieved, there is an ironic element of truth in extrapolating that sentiment.

I think saying you don't know enough about it is a polite way of saying "not my monkey", unless you intend to start looking into it.

Corcory it is disgraceful that you voted to leave the EU without engaging with the issues under the Good Friday Agreement.

Come on then you lot enlighten me on the GFA.

To be fair, I am a Remainer, and I didn't have much of an idea about the Leave implications to the Good Friday agreement before the vote. And I THOUGHT I had a read a lot around the whole thing.

It doesn't work like that corcory

You don't vote for something then ask questions.

Oh hang on...........

Now that i AM aware, it seems yet another reason whilst the whole thing needs to be binned pronto. It is advisory this referendum. The fact that leaving means disaster on so many levels.....our government should not allow this to happen.

I don't think it's fair to hound someone on one issue. The NI situation wasn't mentioned all that prominently, and you would be disingenuous to make out like it was a major reason for many remain votes.

It may not have been a positive reason for remain votes, but it was certainly a reason not to vote to leave - certainly without trying to understand the issues.

Corcory, some links here:

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14594938.MartinMcGuinnessBrexit399seriouslyundermines39GooddFriday_Agreement/

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/19/brexit-northern-irish-politics-border-eu-good-friday-agreement

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/04/28/troubles-redux-brexit-would-put-the-good-friday-agreement-in-jeopardy/

(Those links are to further the discussion btw, not to hound.)

The Good Friday Agreement starts with the fact that a portion of NI's population refuse to acknowledge and accept Westminster's authority over Dublin's this is why Sinn Fein MPs although elected do not sit in Westminster.

So if Dublin are part of the EU and have EU rights then that's what they recognise.
This is fine if the UK are in line with this.

It all starts to fall apart if there is a difference of opinion.

The Good Friday Agreement was in essence an international agreement between Ireland and the UK to ensure common interests and goals between Dublin and London and to put those into writing thus the fact that the question of who had the authority was less of an issue.

It established Stormont and the NI assembly to give localised power to represent community interests better rather than them being dictated and imposed by Westminster.

It goes much further than this and relates to a lot of other issues over peace, trade etc but I think this explanation might start to give you an idea of why London imposing something on NI might undermine that position and how it could put the UK in breech of the agreement.

It is completely a dereliction of duty by politicians to hold a referendum and not address this issue with Ireland first imho. Its sold the whole of NI - on both sides of the community - completely down river.

We've effectively given NI the compromised they wanted and suited them and then at the first opportunity that's come along Westminster has totally reneged on the deal and ignored the democratic voice of NI that essentially picked the GFA over Brexit.

To say its a cock up, is to understate it somewhat.

Of course, all totally predictable and pointed out. And still ignored.

I don't think it's fair to hound someone on one issue. The NI situation wasn't mentioned all that prominently, and you would be disingenuous to make out like it was a major reason for many remain votes.

I agree with this in fairness.

HOWEVER

I have a major problem with the politicians who failed to make it into a major issue of the campaign and failed to address the issue BEFORE the vote.

It SHOULD have been a major reason to vote to remain.

It now needs to be made into that major reason and it needs to be stress how important it is to the NATIONAL interest and to our democratic beliefs and how we have fundamentally let down a massive number of people in not giving the issue the importance it deserved in the writing of the EU Referendum Act.

I don't think it's fair to hound someone on one issue. The NI situation wasn't mentioned all that prominently, and you would be disingenuous to make out like it was a major reason for many remain votes.

It goes back to the 'what did you vote FOR' arguement though.

Voting to Leave was voting for huge change and those that did so had a duty to understand the repercussions.

Thanks for the links Kaija. I'll have a read. I was well aware of the possible hard border implications but was not aware of the sectarian implications with regard to Brexit.

Yes Red. I am very surprised it wasn't a major flank of the remain campaign.

To be frank, many people bought the issue up, but were invariably shouted down by the Brexit campaign with cries of "it won't be a problem", or "it'll all be fine". Typical head-in-the-sand behaviour that we've all seen too much of.