LEAVERS - update on the 'invoke A50 now' petition. I have the reply.

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You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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Dear xxxxxx

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

Government responded:

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives.

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. The process for leaving the EU and determining our future relationship will be a complex one, so we need to take time to think through our objectives and approach. We want to ensure the best possible outcome for Britain and the future UK-EU relationship. As part of this, the government will of course work closely with the devolved administrations to ensure we get the best deal for the UK as a whole. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives, so Article 50 should not be invoked before the end of this year.

Department for Exiting the European Union

Click this link to view the response online:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618?reveal_response=yes

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Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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You have effectively just said, it doesn't matter what I voted for.

Not really, I said I voted for what I didn't want. What we get out of Brexit only time will tell, & depending on what paper you're reading it goes from hard Brexit to not leaving the EU at all. Press speculation will continue untill Theresa May makes her official announcement later this year.
& please don't think I'm walking away from this. I didn't vote leave just to walk away, I want Brexit to be a success for everyone. ( as much as you can please 65 million people )

Thankfully, enough of us had the courage to vote leave & take back control

people who aren't sheep following orders from bureaucrats they've never heard of

people who could see the EU for what it was ( a useless waste of money for most of us )

people who aren't living in the past, but have vision & hope for a better future out of the EU

You've certainly scored a full house in the Brexit Bullshit Bingo stakes surfer

You sound like you've just regurgitated one of Boris' old speeches and not even he believed it was anything other than bravado.

Please explain what you think each of the above quotes will actually translate to in a post Brexit future.

I think the vision of better off outside the EU is the one that many leavers hope would happen.

Still have free access to the free market, but able to put our own conditions on immigration, and avoiding implementation of EU directives, whilst setting up trade agreements with other national that are entirely beneficial to us, and not paying anything into the EU either.

It's hopefully but has no basis in actual reality.

If I had to go through all of that again explaining each point in more detail I'd be here for another 2 hours, I seriously haven't got the time. I'm sorry. Apart from anything else, whatever I say won't be good enough.

I'll put money on it not happening.

We have a 6 months thinking break now. We have years of legal challenges lined up. Before there's any movement there will probably be a general election.

So to keep the silly leavers happy you get a 'were working on it' response.

surfer, 'whatever I say won't be good enough' is a bit poor-me, isn't it?

Surely you can see that statements like 'British values', 'following orders from bureaucrats they've never heard of' and 'people who could see the EU for what it was ( a useless waste of money for most of us )' are generalised and not very meaningful?

I'm more than up for a discussion, but it's not possible to have a meaningful one unless both parties are clear on the content of the arguments. Again, I'm sure you can understand that.

If I had to go through all of that again explaining each point in more detail I'd be here for another 2 hours, I seriously haven't got the time

So basically you're not even able to justify any of those comments without googling what they actually meant and trying to find examples then.

If you had the slightest clue what those statements mean you'd be able to answer in minutes not 2 hours.

The fact is you will get Brexit in time - a Brexit you didn't vote for and don't want - IMPOSED on you every bit as much as any Remainer, just because you don't actually have a real clue want you voted FOR because no one voted FOR anything and the point we are now at, is precisely the 'justifying bit'.

The depressing part of this statement is that it still won't shut up the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory party - they will still be 'banging on about Europe'. They will only be happy with a Hard Brexit.

soover I am happy to stand corrected on the under 30 vote if you would furnish me with the evidence, thank you

Not really, I said I voted for what I didn't want.

You don't want the EU.
Except you seem to have demonstrated don't really fully understand what that means either and what you are 'taking back control' of and in favour of. Etc etc.

No I think you are right, when you say whatever you say won't be good enough.

Mainly because it just doesn't stand up to the poking of realities and is just a wishy washy vague ideology in your head. Thus leaving it for politicians and remainers to make the compromises that you don't want to look at or face up to.

Which is kind of convenient for you really and just feeds back into the frustration everyone who is interested in the nitty gritty of actual policy is feeling.

To spell it out. 'Being outside the EU' means bugger all. Outside, how? As the 51st of the USA? As an annex of Russia? As a subsidiary of Belize?

Yes these are utterly ridiculous suggestions but hell, as it stands, fuck knows what we are going to get and in this environment I'm not sure I could any rule any of those three options out 100%

I give up. The more I think about it, the more I just hope we stay in the single market, retain freedom of movement and to hell with the complaints about how people don't like it.

The more I think about it, the more I just hope we stay in the single market, retain freedom of movement and to hell with the complaints about how people don't like it.

One of my first thoughts, post-vote, was that this would happen. Although I get temporarily persuaded by quite a lot of the new theories when they first come out, I keep on coming back to this.

I think we'll 'win' some minor concessions –a bit like Cameron's sally into Europe when he came back with the four-year freeze on benefits which must be saving the country all of £2.46 a year.

May and the Brexiteers will be able to wave them about triumphantly and spin them as 'a bespoke deal', while privately wiping the sweat from their brows and thanking fucking Christ that they've hung on to the single market and freedom of movement (or, more pertinently, free movement of labour).

I've used the term before, but I keep seeing in our future a Fudgit.

Oh Red this is why I have hope this travesty will not come to pass...

I do believe there are people in Parliament and this country who are truly patriotic and still uphold British Values (my definition: Fair Play, Decency, Tolerance, Truth, Justice but what do I know I am only a foreigner) so I don't care if we are called mostly virtue signalling, middle class, pompous, entitled, arrogant, aggressive, & humourless. A bit like the EU.

Here is hoping against all possible hope that enough people in power love the country more than their political careers and have the Leavers' back whether they thank them or even understand the whole sorry story...and will refrain from invoking Article 50...

Fudgit. Sounds good.

And potentially DOES actually fit with those 32 senior civil servants...

SoyYo Although soover didn't really specify what she meant ("under 30's voting figures have been disproved" - in what way?), I have a dreary feeling, if she does answer you, it will be with the alleged statistic that there was a very low turnout for the youngest group of voters (36%, ISTR was gleefully repeated by Leavers) and therefore, it apparently follows, they deserve to have their future screwed lose.

The alleged 36% turnout for the young was effectively "extrapolated", possibly by Sky (no actual source has admitted to this, IIRC) from previous elections and not based on this refererendum at all. Subsequently, LSE carried out a study actually based on this referendum which showed a much higher turnout amongst the young, in line with other age groups.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/young-people-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

Isn't the operative term for civil servant faceless bureaucrat?

Ah thanks Elements well in that case that was disproven too and the actual turnout was more like 67% or thereabouts and again with the vast majority voting for Remain...I was a bit puzzled by the comment but what do I know? Just in case I copy the latest link I read on the topic (dated mid July) here which if anything confirms the high percentage of young voters who wanted to Remain
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/young-people-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

haha! I posted the same link Elements sorry for that, but great minds think alike and all that

Isn't the operative term for civil servant faceless bureaucrat?

Sorry, yes, I keep forgetting... And/or 'unelected bureaucrat'. Many of whom (albeit the British kind, presumably more acceptable?) will be needed to sort out all our whizzy new post-EU trade deals, not to mention legislature.

The irony is deep and rich.

And/or 'unelected bureaucrat'. Ah but you see, they speak English with the right accent, not like these Johnny Foreigner bureaucrats.

The trouble is that Brexiters get so cross about people saying they voted on false premises and on gut feelings and so on- then list all the false premises they voted on....

Yeah the bill for those bureaucrats is rather eye watering too.

We do pay a lot for the EU ones but then the burden is also shared with a bunch of other countries so we don't all have to our own set of negotiators for trade.

I forgot to add Compassion to what I believe are some laudable British values: compassion for other human beings, for those less fortunate than we are, for the Refugees, the displaced by war and hunger, which explains why Britain is so great at raising funds for charitable causes. It is a value sadly forgotten by all those Leave campaign posters with Farage and the unruly hoardes waiting to stampede all over Britain.
Another one is Stoicism I observed this a lot with the very old generation who fought in WW2 who also had high working ethics but unfortunately mostly dead or too old to outvote the selfish Boomers.
What do I know about British Values though...

The trouble is that Brexiters get so cross about people saying they voted on false premises and on gut feelings and so on- then list all the false premises they voted on....

But, it is very difficult to admit that you have been made a fool of. There's some whistling in the dark going on. I've got a couple of Leave friends, who genuinely thought they were making the correct decision but were very, very sheepish when they realised they'd been sold a pup, when the Leave leaders immediately reneged on their promises.

(Some more idioms for your collection SoyYo.)

SoyYo - please don't paint Boomers as 'selfish'. Around 45% of us didn't vote leave.

Another Boomer here and no, I didn't vote Leave either.