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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

LEAVERS - update on the 'invoke A50 now' petition. I have the reply.

999 replies

Surferjet · 12/08/2016 08:29

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

To unsubscribe from this petition: petition.parliament.uk/signatures/23408528/unsubscribe?token=N5XWEqj08juvvjUWe76

Dear xxxxxx

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

Government responded:

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives.

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. The process for leaving the EU and determining our future relationship will be a complex one, so we need to take time to think through our objectives and approach. We want to ensure the best possible outcome for Britain and the future UK-EU relationship. As part of this, the government will of course work closely with the devolved administrations to ensure we get the best deal for the UK as a whole. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives, so Article 50 should not be invoked before the end of this year.

Department for Exiting the European Union

Click this link to view the response online:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618?reveal_response=yes

This petition has over 100,000 signatures. The Petitions Committee will consider it for a debate. They can also gather further evidence and press the government for action.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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OP posts:
SapphireStrange · 18/08/2016 10:12

I also meant to say about the 'elite' thing – which is wearing pretty thin, by the way – so are Boris Johnson, Michael Gove et al not part of an elite?

How about ex-stockbroker and still-wealthy (from the EU!) politician Nigel Farage? Remember those pics of him the weekend after the vote, at a delightful do with Rupert Murdoch? Bespoke suit and a fancy drink with an olive in. No 'man of the people' pint to be seen.

In voting for Brexit, did you by these lights vote against the elite?

Lweji · 18/08/2016 10:17

Translation: they've gone into hiding (...) where they only get positive reinforcement and no opposing views.

Also, are we talking about a proper clique here? Shock

Peregrina · 18/08/2016 10:29

a massive cock-waving exercise by a bunch of idiots
Grin GrinGrin

53rdAndBird · 18/08/2016 10:31

like being controlled - yes. why else would you want to remain part of a massive Union who decides things for you?

I'm in Scotland. We voted strongly for Remain. Our democratically-elected government wants to stay in the EU.

Are we allowed to control that, or is the massive union based in Westminster going to decide it for us?

Corcory · 18/08/2016 10:35

Tootired -I don't remember any leave campaign say 'make Britain Great again' as a slogan. I think you are mixing up Trump with leave. I, for one didn't make my decision purely on slogans and I suspect' either did most remain voters. I listened too as many debated and interviews as possible and was very well aware of exactly what the leave campaign was saying. Unlike the remainers on here who obviously took no notice just as I did with much of the remain debate. I certainly can't remember much of what they said and could easily spout loads of rhetoric about all they said was scare mongering about how the world as we know it would come to an end.
There were stupid people that voted on both sides. I know more than one person who told me they voted remain because it was 'better the devil you know'. Plenty people would have voted for the status quo and not looked in any depth at the arguments so I think they would have balanced out the idiots who voted leave.
On here we are having constant sniping about there's no plan, the remainers have been left to deal with it all, the leave people have all disappeared.
Well there is no plan because DC didn't make one. The leave campaign do have plenty of ideas about plans but it was never up to them to make one it is up to the government which is what is happening. Parliament is in recess, not that much is going to be discussed but there are things going on behind the scenes. Just because we aren't being told every detail doesn't mean nothing is happening. They are hardly going to go around telling us all what is being discussed they have to work out how best to negotiate with the EU. They would be complete idiots to show their hand.
TM has given quite a few leavers jobs involving Brexit so I really don't see why there is so much chatter about the leavers all buggering off. I think that TM was the best person for the job and although I voted leave I certainly wouldn't have wanted Bo Jo to be PM - he did the right thing.
As for the idea that only the elites and big business do lobbying seems odd to me. I'm sure trades unions, charities and loads of interest groups do plenty of lobbying. I'm fairly certain the NFU will be putting the farmer's case very firmly and there are plenty of Environmental groups etc. The idea that employment rights and environmental standards will all disappear just seems ridiculous.

We are not the USA please don't mix up Trump rhetoric with anything to do with the beliefs of the leaver here.

SapphireStrange · 18/08/2016 10:49

I was pretty aware of what the leave campaign was saying, personally. I'm not sure either how you can so confidently say the 'remainers on here obviously took no notice'?

I do find it amusing that Remain was characterised as going in for 'scaremongering' when Leave was shouting about Turkey joining the EU imminently and this EU army that was going to forcibly conscript all our young men.

Kaija · 18/08/2016 10:58

Actually there is some justification for associating Trump with the leave campaign.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-news-donald-trump-leave-eu-campaign-facts-dont-work-arron-banks-lies-referendum-a7111001.html

Corcory · 18/08/2016 11:23

Sapphire - I was answering what was said up thread about leavers basing their vote on a few slogans. I base my thoughts on the fact that so often on here all you get is shouted down that Leave won only on a load of lies and the constant sniping about the £350m a week on the bus. No one ever seams to mention what was actually said in debates. I don't remember any leaver saying Turkey was going to join 'immediately' or that all our young men would be conscripted into an EU army - never heard that one at all.

Corcory · 18/08/2016 11:36

Kaija - the only connection with Trump in the article is the fact that the major UKIP backer says they use US type campaigning, trying to win hearts rather than bombarding us with facts.

whatwouldrondo · 18/08/2016 11:37

Corcory Brexit delivering a "glorious future for Britain" was one of the recurring tropes of Bojos campaign speeches and the shameless Winstonian rhetoric earned him the greatest cheers. I have absolutely no doubt it struck a powerful chord in all those over 65 leave voters (in fact I witnessed it) who grew up with not just Winston's speeches but a Press that revelled in the greatness of Empire.

Eg "tonight buried the dreary and passionless doom-mongering of the pro-Brussels camp as he countered their endless negativity with a soaring vision for Britain's "glorious" free future." www.express.co.uk/news/uk/661532/EU-referendum-Brexit-Boris-Johnson-speech-Cameron-Osborne-Project-Fear

That entirely mirrors Trumps campaigning.

SapphireStrange · 18/08/2016 11:38

The conversations on here in my experience are much more detailed and good-quality than you suggest, Corcory.

Here's a story from June from our old friends at the Express about Turkey and Vote Leave.

I know someone in RL who swallowed the EU army story whole.

Kaija · 18/08/2016 11:45

Corcory, Arron Banks put millions into the leave campaign and specifically name checks Trump and the rejection of fact-based campaigning in reference to Leave's success.

If this doesn't worry you I can't imagine what would.

Globetrotter100 · 18/08/2016 11:50

Corcory: I don't remember any leaver saying Turkey was going to join 'immediately' or that all our young men would be conscripted into an EU army - never heard that one at all.

I find this beyond extraordinary. There was an abundance of pro-leave propaganda spouted about this both in the media and on MN. There's no way you could have missed it, but just for fun and in honour of 2 prolific now conveniently absent pre-referendum friends:

www.mumsnet.com/TalkTalk/eu_referendum_2016_/2628059-Do-we-want-an-EU-Army

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2658415-Turkey-furious-with-George-Osborne-saying-they-wont-join-the-EU

I do most sincerely apologize in advance for regurgitating racist and factually incorrect Daily Express links so beloved of the Leave campaign.

StorminaBcup · 18/08/2016 11:58

a major UKIP backer says they.....try to win hearts rather than bombarding us with facts.

This is everything that wrong with the whole farce in a nutshell.

StorminaBcup · 18/08/2016 11:59

is

SoyYo · 18/08/2016 12:00

tiggy yes you are correct, in that the UK/EU has not always been an easy partnership and there is a history of the topic of leaving the Union being debated in the past decades. I was merely trying to explain that the vast majority of the British public didn't care one jot about leaving the Eu till the irresponsible, lie ridden Leave campaign stirred up emotions against Europe/immigration and the crazy notion that the UK would be better off out than in.

On the topic of British identity mentioned by others. I identy as British as well as my birth nation having lived here for so many decades, being naturalised, having a British spouse and British born children. Is it so difficult to imagine many people feeling both European and British at the same time? Why would a British identity exclude a European identity? The EU was never about losing one's national identity, if you travel and live and work in Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, NL, etc, etc you will observe each country with its own unique cultural heritage, differences, which go deeper than language, and which are just as marked in different regions of the same country as they are here. It is fascinating and rather wonderful. Vive la difference!
The fact remains that Britain is part of Europe geographically and its history is intertwined with European history going right back to the time when the land mass was still one, genetically we are all part of the same ethnic pool and have more in common than not. So why does British identity even enter into the Leave rethoric I honestly do not understand at all.

I think many people have pointed out the economic, political, social fallout and consequences of this Leave vote on this nation better than I can. I am still tapping fingers to see if I can hear a positive case for the Leave vote that doesn't involve xenophobia, prejudice...let alone a robust exit strategy.

I also listened to the Leave camp, even though I wasn't convinced I actually wanted to do the right thing by this country. I had Ian Duncan Smith knocking on my door and none of his arguments rung true to me, it was all too woolly.

It is such a shame that the young generation will not be able to experience free movement, the possibility to work freely in so many fascinating countries, and yes there is a lot wrong with the EU but now there is no possibility to influence it. There is an "ideal" of a united, prosperous European people still maintaining their culture but part of something that ultimately benefits all and secures peace in the future, a peace that makes the loss of so many lives in WW1 and WW2 not a complete waste of human capital, and restores faith in what people can achieve despite their national differences. This is what the Leave campaign has made people vote against.
There are no such high ideals with the Leave rethoric, it is simply not true that Britain is not a sovereign nation able to determine its destiny, it is all scaremongering about uncontrolled immigration. The arguments for isolating Britain from its closest neighbours, the notion that is it better off out as an isolated island is no longer relevant in the hyper connected globalised world we live in.

I feel uncomfortable living here now for the reasons I explained before. I don't see why I should be worried about my foreign accent, and get funny looks when I open my mouth. I can literally "feel" the hostility stirred up by the Hate Leave campaign, and I am not paranoid. I go from outrage to sadness, and feel deeply sorry that in future young people will be robbed of so many opportunities. I was happy to contribute to this society which is also mine, with my taxes, charity work, my friendship and my experiences. As it happens the vote doesn't affect our family that much as we can pretty much go without major upheaval to our lives (and come back as often as we like) and will still have access to both UK and Eu homes, family & passports.

I understand how emotions were stirred with the lies, but people who persist on defending the Leave campaign I do think are deeply misguided still or worse: racist.
I am also very sad to see how this Referendum has split British society...and the country I love.

IAmNotTheMessiah · 18/08/2016 12:02

Corcory - BritBrit, STID, Roonerspism, Springingintoaction, Limer, AnnaForbes - all of these posters (for a start) insisted that Turkey was imminently going to join the EU, and that just in debates on Mumsnet. You can search on it easily enough.

Corcory · 18/08/2016 12:03

I agree there is more detailed debate in many respects, but Sapphire, why do so many remainers still go on and on about the same things over and over again like they've all gone into hiding.

SapphireStrange · 18/08/2016 12:05

go on and on about the same things over and over again like they've all gone into hiding.

I think there's a whole two mentions on this thread of leavers going into hiding.

Anyway, what do you think about the recent posts/links about the EU Army/Turkey?

Peregrina · 18/08/2016 12:07

Expressed so perfectly SoyYo.

Corcory · 18/08/2016 12:13

Globetrotter - I really do not understand what you are on about I said quite specifically that I was talking about Turkey's IMMEDIATE entry to the EU. As for the bit about the EU army, again you haven't read what I wrote properly. I was talking about there being conscription not the fact that Junkers has said there will be an army.

Bearbehind · 18/08/2016 12:19

No one ever seams to mention what was actually said in debates

corcory, please can you give examples of what was actually said in debates that persuaded you to vote Leave then?

Globetrotter100 · 18/08/2016 12:25

Weasel words.

SapphireStrange · 18/08/2016 12:31

Here's a little something about conscription.

birdflu666.wordpress.com/2016/06/13/vote-brexit-vote-no-to-conscription-into-eu-army/

Corcory · 18/08/2016 12:35

Bear - One of the things that is constantly brought up is the £350m a week. It didn't take me very long to find out from interviews with the leave campaign that the figure was the gross amount we have to ear mark every week for the EU and that there is then a rebate taken off and we are given so much back in the way of subsidies but we would still have quite a bit left over to spend on things like the NHS. It also didn't take much listening to find out that the leave campaign wanted all existing EU citizens to have the right to stay in the UK. It didn't take much to find out that the leave campaign wanted the farmers and other subsidised sectors not to loose out .

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