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Brexit

AIBU to wonder why approx 40% of Londoners voted for Brexit?

216 replies

fluffychicken · 07/08/2016 15:39

Can any London Brexiters tell me why you voted for Brexit? I am really curious to know.

OP posts:
Sooverthis · 14/08/2016 21:30

And his behaviour was wrong too I was shocked at the thin veneer of civilisation apparent after the vote. We should not hold democracy, as flawed as ours is, so cheaply the alternatives are far worse.

Kaija · 14/08/2016 21:35

I quite agree, and our democracy, as flawed as it is, is a parliamentary democracy.

Referendums, as we know (only too clearly now), are devices of dictators and demagogues.

Kaija · 14/08/2016 21:44

Although I am rather surprised that you didn't see how thin the veneer was in the weeks leading to the vote...

Dapplegrey2 · 14/08/2016 21:46

Kaija - surely dictators don't offer the populace referendums or any form of democratic choice?

Corcory · 14/08/2016 21:49

Gloria - I don't remember any victim playing and hysteria from leavers but I certainly remember being belittled and called some fairly demeaning names by remainers. Smallfox has been especially good at that I seem to recall.

Sooverthis · 14/08/2016 21:57

Our parliament offered us a referendum, our government was elected on the assurance of a referendum the two are not and never have been mutually exclusive.

Sooverthis · 14/08/2016 22:08

Parliamentary democracy and referendums that is

Kaija · 14/08/2016 22:11

The quote is from Thatcher, herself quoting Clement Attlee, who was referring to their use by Hitler.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanreferendum,,_1934

Kaija · 14/08/2016 22:12

What kind of names, Corcory?

GloriaGaynor · 14/08/2016 22:17

Actually the leave voter made a good point and that's why that petition gathered momentum. It beggars belief that the government ratified a referendum on such a seismic change without a minimum threshold of at least 60 or 70%.

The Nazis held several referendums. The referendum to leave the League of Nations was particularly popular. After WWII Germany banned them - as they are basically an easily manipulable mob vote.

GloriaGaynor · 14/08/2016 22:18

Corycory.

I've never seen smallfox call you or anyone demeaning names.

Peregrina · 14/08/2016 22:24

It beggars belief that the government ratified a referendum on such a seismic change without a minimum threshold of at least 60 or 70%.

And insisted that it was 'advisory' when they have now decided that it's no such thing!

Kaija · 14/08/2016 22:37

Perhaps not mutually exclusive, sooverthis, but by the same token there is no reason for an advisory, non-binding, referendum to trump parliamentary democracy where there is a conflict between the two: the interests of the country as judged by our elected representatives must come first.

Anyway, what sort of Brexit would you like to see at this point? Are you hoping to try to retain membership of the EEA as some leave campaigners advocated, or keen to cut all ties and take the economic hit however great it may be? This is the point that needs discussion now.

Extraordinary that such vastly differing options were covered by a single option on the ballot paper, but there it is.

Peregrina · 14/08/2016 22:39

Indeed Kaija. If there had been three options

Remain,
EEA if possible,
Complete withdrawal,

we could then begin to say with some certainty what the democratic will of the people really was.

Kaija · 14/08/2016 22:43

Yes, a three option vote would have been better - although I suppose we would have needed some assurance from the rest of the EU that the EEA option would even be open to us, and I'm not sure whether that would have been forthcoming.

GloriaGaynor · 14/08/2016 22:47

I don't see how it could be, Norway is not very happy about such a big country joining the EFTA states.

It would be amusing if Norway vetoed us joining.

SapphireStrange · 15/08/2016 10:31

Soover, if starting a petition is 'shockingly bad behaviour', where on your continuum of shock is shoving notes saying 'No more Polish vermin' through letterboxes and the rise in racially motivated hate crimes?

And Marma, smallfox speaks for me too, if you're keeping a tally.

Oh, and, Dapple and anyone else who doesn't think referendums are a favoured device of dictators, Italian fascism liked them too. This is all well documented and easily found.

Marmaduchess · 15/08/2016 11:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SapphireStrange · 15/08/2016 11:32

Allegations. Hmm

The Polish vermin cards happened, were documented, and even reported in pro-Brexit media like the Mail.

The Scotland Yard deputy commissioner is quoted as saying 'the Brexit vote appeared to have "unleashed something in people".'

WTF is a 'foreign ethnic'?

And how on earth could you characterise saying 'When are you going home then?' to Eastern Europeans as 'jesting comments'? And for the record, I wouldn't say the same thing to a Scottish person in the event of Scottish independence.

prettybird · 15/08/2016 11:32

And just who is this "native ethnic group"? Hmm

Kaija · 15/08/2016 11:41

Can anyone else be bothered to dismantle that steaming pile of denial and insinuation? I haven't the strength right now.

Kaija · 15/08/2016 11:42

Sorry - x-posts with Sapphire and Prettybird.

Marmaduchess · 15/08/2016 11:43

"If there had been three options
Remain,
EEA if possible,
Complete withdrawal,
we could then begin to say with some certainty what the democratic will of the people really was."

ROFL. How would "EEA if possible" be any less ambiguous than the current definition of Brexit? Grin

Most people would not oppose the EEA if it means we are not subject to EU laws, not subject to the ECJ and not obliged to accept free movement!
Its all about the conditions . We would have to have a choice of at least three EEA options and this would offer the electorate so many different possibilities that not only would most of the electorate be very confused but it would break down the vote to such an extent that there simply would be no mandate.

As we now stand the choice was simple most people voted OUT in the fullest sense. Most of those who were uncertain voted Remain.
That is not to say we wouldn't be happy to remain in the EEA, but it should be on our terms. If we cannot get this, then we must pay the tariffs, and we must resort to protectionism in return.

Without Britain, and given how hated the EU is by many people in member countries (France and the PIGS) it may well collapse soon. Bring it on!

whatwouldrondo · 15/08/2016 11:48

Marmaduchess What rubbish. For a start the police are recording an increase in reported hate crimes, it isn't just that they are being reported in the Press. I can assure you that I have personally witnessed the nastiness experienced by friends and colleagues as well as seeing some nasty little postcards put up in the area, where there have never been any in the past.

It may be alright to tease somebody you know well for all sorts of things like hair colour, wearing glasses, as well as ethnicity, if you know them very well and it is something that is acknowledged between you to be acceptable and a source of humour, and that means it is a two way street, they have every right to take the piss out of you too. It is not being overly courteous and polite to never say these things to strangers EVER. My DD at the age of 11 had two grown men shout out to her in the street "Is the bush the same as the tree ginger" was that the sort of humour you think is acceptable and normal, or even funny?

Of course if a person's ethnicity is actually a target of institutional racism over a long period of time then you should be even more sensitive in what you say. My daughter's friends have actually commented that nobody would dare continually referring to their hair and skin in the way they did to my daughter's, that's a good thing isn't it? That they felt safe from such nastiness. It is not OK to make derogatory comments that affect people's confidence, at all. It really is about respect and plain common emotional intelligence.

I would have thought it was a traditional British value passed down by generations of mothers "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all".

Marmaduchess · 15/08/2016 11:48

The Scotland Yard deputy commissioner is quoted as saying 'the Brexit vote appeared to have "unleashed something in people".

That's solid evidence of widespread racist attacks all down to Brexit?
Hmm Hmm Hmm

Hope you never have to sit on a jury!!!

I'll wait and see if over the next few months it emerges that convictions are on the rise thank you!