Westministenders Continues. The one where are being grateful for having a Boris rather than a Trump and UKIP show Labour how it’s done.

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD TWELVE

The calm of the eye of the storm is upon us. The signs are there that more trouble is ahead. What now for Brexit, the blank cheque for our future?

May’s honeymoon can only last the Summer, until she has to do some proper graft. Her Cabinet have all gone on holiday and to swat up on their new specialised subject, and by god have they got some homework to do.

Well, all of them apart from Liam Fox, who has bugger all to do for some time.

Johnson needs to… well we all know what Boris needs to do. Bend over and take it like a good boy.

Davies needs to learn the entire structure and workings of the EU and its variations of trade agreements and relationships with other nations. Juncker has the FUKD in his little black book of people who have crossed him (yes, he actually has one of these) and has put Brit Hating Barnier in charge of the EU Brexit team. Davies must somehow hold his own against this experienced EU hardnut. In French. Oh and find a permanent office.

What do the others need to learn? Hammond - how to perform a bloody miracle. Patel - it is illegal to use foreign aid as a leverage for trade deals. Leadsom – er everything? Rudd – how to do bigger assault on liberty and human rights than her mentor. Fallon – how we will afford to defend ourselves with pitch forks, especially if we can’t use Trident for some reason and it becomes necessary. Our enemy; Russia? North Korea? Turkey? Isis? Na. Trump if he wins.

Brexit is now officially in the hands Whitehall’s unbelievers. Those overstretched officials who are already saying there is a gap in their capacity to deliver what Parliament wants without additional the burden of Brexit. These discredited experts are left wondering if their challenge is, in reality, Mission Impossible, and this is made worse by the pressure that just about every senior Brexiteer seems to say is ‘easy’ despite all the mounting evidence to the contrary. Which is cold comfort to everyone who voted – Remain or Leave alike.

We still don’t even know what Brexit is. It is still something which has no coherent ideology and no clear set of prescriptions for what ailes us as a society. It is a bundle of contradictions, united chiefly by what, and who, it opposes. Whatever the problem, Brexit can fix it. Whatever the threat, internal or external, Brexit can vanquish it, and it is unnecessary for Brexiteers to explain how.

May’s plan? Some say that she is the Dear Leader, some say she is an evil genius with Larry the Cat on her lap waiting for the Brexiteer Boys to fuck it up so we can Remain, some say she is blessed by the Ghost of Thatcher but we know her as The PM. –Sorry I’ve been itching to make the May/Hammond Top Gear gag for several weeks— The truth is, we just don't know yet.

Plus anything Brexit related about the Labour and UKIP leadership and the rest of the world thrown in to boot.

This is the quest for the answers that everyone wants and trying to keep an eye on those politicians and accountability (both here and abroad in the era of post-fact politics in the trail of Brexit). There maybe no single ‘truth’ but there sure as hell is a lot of bullshit to wade through. Get your wellies out, and plough on through with us.

No experience necessary. Sense of humour required.

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Brexit Fall Out Timetable
Labour Hustings Nottinghamshire: Wednesday 17th August
Labour Hustings Birmingham: Thursday 18th August.
Labour Hustings Glasgow: Thursday 25th August.
Labour Hustings London: Thursday 1st September
UKIP Leadership Result: 15th September
Labour Leadership Result: Saturday 24th September
The Department for Exiting the European Union first question sessions in Parliament: Thursday 20th October
High Court hearing on a50: due 'no earlier than the third week in October'
US Presidential Election: 8th November
French Presidential Election 1st Round: 23 April 2017
French Presidential Election 2nd Round: 7th May 2017
German Federal Election: Between 27 August and 22 October 2017

Last thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2690632-Westminstenders-Continues-Boris-is-having-a-bad-week-Corbyn-resists-Its-gonna-be-a-long-summer?pg=1

Peregrina - I imagine exactly that sort of transition process to move to new-style UK passports. I think I remember correctly that's what happened when we moved from the old blue passports to the new red EU ones.

I also think I'm correct that there aren't any EU standards over and above the ICAO passport standards - in fact, the UK in issuing biometric passports for some time now is generally ahead of the curve on security features.

And on Ireland, there are regular official level and ministerial level talks with the RoI on all sorts of things, including border policing, immigration, security etc etc - so of course the Brexit plan will be discussed, rather than left until after the a50 button is pressed.

BBC news channel is having a 'brexit Britain' day all day on Monday.

There was no detail on what they'll actually be showing that I could find as yet.

This imagining of the Brexit brainstorm, plus the comments, made me laugh:

mobile.twitter.com/DavidAllenGreen/status/770867998773092352

It seems like the government has no idea what to do. They wil turn their efforts to other business like the NHS; then people will be absorbed by the American election; and they hope it will all go away, like a bad dream.
What do you do with an intractable problem? Put up a pretence that you're dealing with it, say that it will take time to get it right for the UK, and hope something else bigger happens that will make Brexit seem undesirable. A perceived threat to national security, maybe?

The Government seem to have no idea what to do, but seem to have decided that the thing we want most is to curb immigration. The bit they were singularly worst on before the Referendum.

As for 'Sovereignity' - quietly forgotten with talks of not putting the vote to Parliament.

I had a depressing conversation with my junior doctor brother yesterday. He's temporarily leaving to become an academic(!) 3 of his medic friends have already gone, and the hospital he works at for on-call shifts has closed consultant maternity, trauma and diabetes clinics which will all now have to go to the big teaching hospital 45 minutes away. Obviously there are no more resources for the teaching hospital to cope with the additional people.

Given that a positive vote for Brexit could be a vote for additional funding for the NHS, it's interesting how that has been completely overlooked and ignored.

delurking here - I have been followed this thread.
On an extra bit to the NHS debate .
I live in a nice, small market town in the North. Massive building of houses going on. It has mushroomed in about 6/7 years, with lots of houses still planned and agreed on. The Doctors surgery has moved to new purpose built bigger premises this year. But they cannot recruit enough doctors and 2 have just retired. We are in a nice, leafy area, good schools, cheapish to live. What chance has anyone got to fulfil the primary care , if they can't fill the posts for an ordinary service, let alone a 7-day one? Which then puts more pressure on A & E and hospitals.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37252843
Tory Remain supporting MP says we need a clear plan soon.

Andrew Tyrie called for an "early, full and detailed explanation" of the government's negotiating position.

He also advocates delaying a50 until the end of next year.

According to Mr Tyrie, the government should wait for "clarity" from other EU partners on what they will be able to offer before triggering formal talks, which could mean delaying Article 50 until German elections in September 2017.

The Treasury Select Committee chairman also said "sky-high" public expectations about the financial savings from Brexit had to be managed.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2016/08/brexit-negotiations-what-happens-eu-payments-and-subsidies
What happens to EU Payments and Subsidies past 2020?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nicola-sturgeon-unveils-new-push-8753342#ICID=sharebar_twitter
Nicola Sturgeon launches IndyRef2 push saying that they will not stand by amid reckless Tory betrayal.

I guess I wonder, with the opinion polls as they are, whether this is brinkmanship too or really a serious push for independence.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/02/green-party-announce-leader-caroline-lucass-return-expected-conference?CMP=twt_gu
Caroline Lucas set to become leader of the Greens again.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/how-populist-parties-get-their-message-across/
Them and Us.

The Cabinet says Cake. We want cake. And we want to eat cake

Why indeed can't Blair STFU? What he says though is not entirely unreasonable. Why should Remain voters shut up, as he says, we don't need to prioritise the needs of the Tory party, and if people believe in Democracy there should be debate. He says that things like weaker car manufacturing could shift the debate. Yes, it may, but I would suspect that it will only shift on a long time scale, which will be too late. The car plants are most likely to carry on as at present; the change will come when they incur the expense of retooling for new models. That is when they may decide to pull out or cut back.

BBC Brexit Day means BBC Brexit Day, of course - no need to get into details about what it involves!

Am I being silly in imagining that BBC Brexit Day will consist of X hours of people saying "We don't know yet"?

Or to make it more exciting, will we have a dramatized imagining of the Cabinet's brainstorming session?

What a shame I'll be at work and will miss it all.

Thought I'd take a look at David Davis's Twitter page - "he" hasn't actually posted much since 24 June but today he's said this,

"We should all focus on new freedoms and opportunities for UK to succeed post-Brexit: my article for @BelTel"

Comments below are quite funny. Lots of us were quite happy with the freedoms we already had.

Sooner or later, I think this Brexit is Brexit is going to come back to haunt Theresa May.

Where are the Belfast Telegraph comments? I couldn't seen them.

I think David Davis gets a unicorn award for writing a load of nonsense.

I think David Davis gets a unicorn award for writing a load of nonsense.

His trophy cabinet must be getting a bit full by now!

Martin Kettle in the Guardian saying TM will sacrifice everything on the altar of restricting free movement of people www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/02/theresa-may-bleak-future-outside-single-market-eu-trade

Also a comment from user 'Oxford' which is depressing but I agree with:

"You only have to read the Telegraph to see what is going on. The offshore tax moguls who funded Brexit and the supporting media campaign see this as their best opportunity for a low tax, low regulation economy. That they hijacked people's fears of foreigners to achieve this is one of the despicable things I've ever seen. Do the people of Rotherham really think that the benefits of a UK singapore will flow to them? Their best hope was a northern European social democracy with higher taxes and strong redistribution, but that seems a million miles away now."

That certainly seems to fit with Bank's personal viewpoint (also see Dyson, Hargreaves, Bamford et al)

Sorry, I meant the comments on his Twitter page.

Here's another article from www.independent.co.uk/voices/anyone-who-still-felt-positive-about-brexit-needs-to-know-what-a-pathetic-shambles-the-first-brexit-a7221421.html

The body language around the table is interesting - Fox nodding like a donkey whilst Johnson furtively checks out how the others react with very little obvious nodding. And, Jeremy Heywood next to her starts to look rather anxious when she talks about Brexit's delivery.

That comment sums it up completely, Unicorns. I still blameThatcher.

The Government seem to have no idea what to do, but seem to have decided that the thing we want most is to curb immigration.

They're not wrong. I was out with very old friends recently and, without them disclosing how they voted, they made clear that curbing immigration is the one single thing they expect to be delivered. Very comfortable, liberal educations, no immigrants within leagues of where they live or where they were raised. They also made clear that curbing immigration should be supported by dress codes enforced against Muslims. There was zero scope of discussion and it was a profoundly depressing meet up.

Out of interest, does anyone have a link to a good (and comprehensible) analysis of the reality of immigration into the UK that examines the different types and the controls that apply to them? I'm looking for something objective and not coming from either side of the political spectrum. Next time I encounter this kind of situation I want to know more so I can give my views based on something substantial. Thanks.

Interesting link, SwedishEdith. I note TM says:
"We want to be a government and a country that works for everyone"
She said this in the context of 'social reform' but I wonder how on earth she thinks they can be a government that works for 'everyone' when 'everyone' is so divided.
I've been waiting since 24th June for a statement to be made about how they will attempt to bring the 16 million remain voters on board with Brexit (or at the very least pay lip service to our concerns/mention our existence), but the silence is deafening.

I can't see how Theresa May can possibly have a government and country that works for everyone. Her main aim is to remain as PM and to do that she has to accommodate right wing southern England Tories, who won't even know where places like Sunderland and Carlisle are, never mind care about the people who work there.

www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/world/europe/britain-brexit-eu.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
The US thinks we are nuts for having no plan.

www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ac3b4214-bd85-4d7a-aa81-c4136062f285
Investor might sue the UK if we leave the Single Market.
Potential claims against the UK
Brexit might expose the United Kingdom to claims of foreign investors (including investors from EU member states), e.g. for frustration of these investors’ alleged legitimate expectations that the UK would remain a member state of the European Union and would continue to enjoy benefits provided by EU law. This will depend on the specific terms of the British exit from the EU.

www.irishlegal.com/5209/brexit-challenges-to-go-before-high-court-on-monday/
NI legal cases in High Court on Monday.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/02/angela-merkel-marine-le-pen-europe-destiny?CMP=twt_gu
Merkel and Le Pen. Whose vision of Europe will we have?

'March for Europe' in 7 cities round the UK today, calling for Parliament to discuss Brexit terms:

mobile.twitter.com/TheNewEuropean/status/771986157848657920

Just off now to the march.

Glad the sun is out for the marchers!
Look forward to seeing the news reports. Wish I could be there myself.

Went to the Oxford march, maybe only 2-3 hundred people there. I couldn't hear all the speakers but those I could hear made some good points. The rain held off. A couple of hecklers shouting We're out, came past. Another group of marchers came past us, protesting about the lack of affordable housing in Oxford.