Westminstenders Contines. Boris outmaneovered everyone?! Now War and Peace?

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD TEN

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This set of threads started out asking if Boris had been outmanoeuvred by Cameron handing him a poison chalice. Fate made it seem as if Boris lost the battle but May has confounded everyone and handed him a second chance. Or so it might seem.

May now has a new Cabinet after a sweeping cull of Cameron's lot. It is more right wing than in a generation. A number of appointments have raised eyebrows. There are plenty of poison chalices and plenty of Brexiteers. Will this create peace in the Tory ranks? Or is it just the calm before the storm

Labour are tearing themselves apart what now seems to be all out civil war. Talk of gerrymandering, violence, disenfranchisement, deselection and intimidation are rife. The seems to be no end in sight, and no prospect of a solution apparent. The question perhaps seems to be when and how, rather than if the party will split, and who will retain the name and party funds.

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So the sad face of British politics in the last two days can be summed up in a single image. Boris and a brick.

Depressed?

I think we have a while to go yet before we hit the bottom.

Excuse me with the intros as I'm starting to struggle to keep up with things myself

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2684990-The-Westminster-Hunger-Games-Contines-May-Day-May-Day Previous Thread Nine

Have they confirmed anything about the driver in Nice? Last I hear IS hadn't claimed responsibility, and the guy was only known to police as a petty criminal - but the President was saying terrorism. I assume they have a good basis for that?

You do not need someone 'to claim responsibility'.
The purpose of terrorism is to spread fear and terror. That's it.
The motive behind that is not important in defining it as terrorism.

The mere act of doing something deliberately brutal on that scale, which it can not be argued it wasn't - even on the little information we have, makes it terrorism.

It does not need to co-ordinated. Nor does it need to part of a group. It doesn't even need to be part of a known ideology - it just needs to feed into the social cracks and insecurities of our society.

We do need to challenge the stereotype of 'terrorism' and 'terrorist' and understand its meaning properly - in order to tackle it effectively, as the stereotype helps to fuel the whole cycle unfortunately.

ok. maybe I don't fully understand the semantics of the word 'terrorism'. I am going by the associations (Islamic) it has currently. Retreating into the real world for a bit but will be back later. Thanks for this thread, Red. It's great for someone who would stay up all night to watch an election but is not deeply politically knowledgable!

Terrorism is a strategy employed to win an armed struggle.

Everything that causes terror isn't terrorism.

I think mass murder is closer to the mark until.we know more.

So it is terrorism because of its effect regardless of intention? Is it worth giving it a label if it doesn't belong to a known ideology?

howabout - as far as I can tell, TF is only commenting on AL's thoughts on mail nannies because they were printed in The Times, and that was picked up by The Mail. I would imagine that he was asked for his response, and gave it.

I think this is very much a product of AL's desire to live in the 1950s and take us all there with her. It probably also plays well with the members of her local party, who I suspect would consider being a nanny firmly in the 'woman's work' category and would find it very strange were a man to want to do it. I also think it is further evidence that she is neither a particularly bright nor particularly nice person. I'd also be amazed if this is the last bonkers utterance to come out of this interview, which looks like it could be the gift that keeps on giving.

chalalala no response that I have found yet. Then again I am still looking for the response to the Cabinet in general...

Anyway.

POKEMON!!!
The Shadow Cabinet in Pokémon.

(Viral going around 'Save Labour' quarters)

The purpose of terrorism is to spread fear and terror. That's it.

Um no.

Terrorism is a strategy employed as part of an armed movement.

It is absolutely not just people who want to spread fear and terror for no reason.

IRA terrorists had particular goals and aims. So do ISIS terrorists.

Their methods and organisation can vary enormously, but it is incredibly simplistic to claim that terror is what motivates them.

Inspiring fear is probably what motivates US-style campus shooters. But they are not terrorists.

David Davis is either ignoring facts or is ignorant of them:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/14/global-bilateral-trade-deals-bigger-eu-single-market-david-davis

DD: "We have far more to gain than we have to lose, while the opposite is true for the EU. People have spoken, wrongly, about 3.3 million British jobs being ‘linked’ to our membership of the EU. Well there are over 5 million jobs on the continent that are linked to trade with Britain."

Yes but those 5 million are spread over 27 countries

DD: "if the EU slapped tariffs on the UK, a Conservative government could retaliate by putting tariffs on EU products and use the revenue to invest in British industry."

BUT according to WTO rules, a country can't single out countries, but has to treat them all the same unless there is an existin gtrade deal with them.

i.e. if we slap 10% on EU products, we'd have to put 10% on products form every other country - and they'd of course put 10% on ours - so we couldn't trade profitably with ANYONE
< pulls out more clumps of hair in frustration >

I'm hoping that he will accept reality, if he can't lassoo the unicorns within 18 months or so.
Currently, he is still ruling out an EEA deal that allows EU immigration, i.e. no EEA.

BUT according to WTO rules, a country can't si^ngle out countries, but has to treat them all the same unless there is an existin gtrade deal with them.

Well that applies equally to the EU, surely?

They can't "slap" tariffs on us without leaving the WTO?

In short, terrorism is ideological

Yes

Davis talks very confidently about what the EU will want and will do, but he'll be getting a reality check soon enough. Would love to hear him explain to 27 heads of state what is and is not in their national interest.

I wonder when we'll be getting the first signs of expectations management.

chalalala - I give it til Tuesday. He should have had a kicking from all the major countries by then...

Jack Blanchard (Daily Mirror)
‏@JackBlanchard
From lobby today.
Hack 1: "So. Does the PM have full confidence in Andrea Leadsom?"
PM's spokeswoman: "Yes."
silence
Hack 2: "Why?"

Yeah it will be interesting to see when expectation management kicks in. I think it has already started in parts of the media tbh. Lots of political interviews, are being deliberately targeted at a certain group - Why have May and Davies done interviews with The Sun? Davies, just hasn't worked this all out properly yet. May I think has.

PoliticsHome have found a couple of Labour MPs to comment on Loathsome's continuing stupidity

“This is an extraordinarily offensive statement from the new Environment Secretary,” said Jon Ashworth, the Shadow Minister without Portfolio.

“Andrea Leadsom should apologise immediately and the Prime Minister should also distance herself from these comments."

Lucy Powell, Labour MP and former Shadow Education Secretary, told The Times: “These comments show an enormous lack of judgment on Andrea’s part.

“She should know as well as I know that not only are men just as capable of doing childcare jobs but we should want to encourage more men into those jobs as they can bring other benefits.”

Just marking my spot. Thanks again for all the insight here.

Sky News NewsdeskVerified account
‏@SkyNewsBreak
A 44 year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of making threats to kill after email was sent to Labour leadership candidate Angela Eagle

show I'm glad you were safe at your meeting. It is a shame that you even had to think about it.

Doinit Big difference legally:
The EU wouldn't be slapping tariffs on us, just treating us like any other country with whom it doesn't have an agreement.
Davis said that the UK would slap tariffs on the EU in retaliation, i.e. deliberately, not automatically.
The deafault would be that we have no tariffs against anyone, because we'd be back at year zero.
That's why we'd have to slap NEW tariffs on every country in the world and the EU wouldn't.

The EU have trade agreements with many countries outside the EU, but we only share these as part of the EU. Once we leave, we'd have to treat them and the EU countries equally.

There is a WTO maximum tariff, so the EU can't put tariffs of 10% on UK imports.

And if they go to WTO tariffs, then so can we.

Interesting article here from John Harris in the Guardian about the decline of the Labour Party.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/15/labour-death-spite-bullying-working-class-base?CMP=fb_gu

As per usual, the comments are dominated by Momentumbots who are busy attacking anyone who doesn't agree with them while claiming the moral highground. Nobody but them cares about austerity and social justice apparently.

A delightful addition are the 'As a woman I haven't experienced any threats so therefore they aren't happening'.

I think Labour politicians are criticising Loathsome because she's one of the few topics they can agree on.
Now get Corbyn, the PLP and the membership to get around to statements about terrorism, the economy, Brexit ....
But no, they are too busy in their bitter ideological war to address the worries and needs of ordinary people

Sadiq Khan is a very honourable exception, getting on with his job. He announced he is reveiwing safety measures in the capital.
Btw, during his election he kept as far away from JC as he could without actually leaving London !

TM and her government moved smoothly into gear. They seem to be doing their jobs too

www.itv.com/news/update/2016-07-15/theresa-may-article-50-will-not-be-brought-forward/
May - Article 50 will not be brought forward

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/owen-smith/owen-smith-labour-leadership-election_b_11006882.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&
My Campaign for Labour Leader Will Be Full of Energy, Optimism and Ideas for Securing a Better Future for Our Country

Cars from outside the EU automatically have a 10% tariff unless they have a trade agreement; some agricultural products even higher iirc.
The WTO limits only apply to certain classes of goods

It is important that the EU would be treating us like everyone else with whom it doesn't have an agreement, as it is required to do under WTO rules
They actually are not allowed to treat us favourable without a sugned trade deal.
Davis is talking about retaliating against not being treated as a special case