Westminstenders Contines. Boris outmaneovered everyone?! Now War and Peace?

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD TEN

-----------------

This set of threads started out asking if Boris had been outmanoeuvred by Cameron handing him a poison chalice. Fate made it seem as if Boris lost the battle but May has confounded everyone and handed him a second chance. Or so it might seem.

May now has a new Cabinet after a sweeping cull of Cameron's lot. It is more right wing than in a generation. A number of appointments have raised eyebrows. There are plenty of poison chalices and plenty of Brexiteers. Will this create peace in the Tory ranks? Or is it just the calm before the storm

Labour are tearing themselves apart what now seems to be all out civil war. Talk of gerrymandering, violence, disenfranchisement, deselection and intimidation are rife. The seems to be no end in sight, and no prospect of a solution apparent. The question perhaps seems to be when and how, rather than if the party will split, and who will retain the name and party funds.

-----------------

So the sad face of British politics in the last two days can be summed up in a single image. Boris and a brick.

Depressed?

I think we have a while to go yet before we hit the bottom.

Excuse me with the intros as I'm starting to struggle to keep up with things myself

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2684990-The-Westminster-Hunger-Games-Contines-May-Day-May-Day Previous Thread Nine

[RedToothBrush]

It was my understanding that the UK was not allowed to start any formal trade negotiations with non-EU countries as long as it was still part of the EU?

We're not...

At least not technically. We technically would need to ask permission from the EU. I'm not quite sure they would enforce it though.

[flippinada]

BigChoc that's one of the worst aspects. I expect this target was chosen knowing there would be families there.

I'm not surprised the Brexit vote is viewed as self indulgent by other nations - it is.

[MerryMarigold]

Another one avoiding the 'official' Nice thread. Too time-and-emotion-consuming? (Makes me angry at random internet people, and drawn into pointless debate, rather than sad for the victims and their families).

Have they confirmed anything about the driver in Nice? Last I hear IS hadn't claimed responsibility, and the guy was only known to police as a petty criminal - but the President was saying terrorism. I assume they have a good basis for that?

[BigChocFrenzy]

For anyone blocked by the Times firewall, the Fail helpfully repeated Loathsome's remarks about male carers and paedophiles.
What passes for deep thoughts of the Loathsome bullet we dodged:

"let's face it, most of us don't employ men as nannies ..."
"Now you can call that sexist, I call that cautious and very sensible when you look at the stats."
"Your odds are stacked against you if you employ a man."
"We know paedophiles are attracted to working with children.I'm sorry but they're the facts."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691619/Andrea-Leadsom-claims-cautious-sensible-not-appoint-men-nannies-case-turn-paedophiles.html

[Chalalala]

Merry I think the reasons for calling it terrorism are still circumstantial - the date is symbolic, Nice is a known centre for jihadism, the attacker appears to have been Franco-Tunisian, and he had weapons.

They're still trying to confirm that the identity papers they found are the attackers', though.

[Helmetbymidnight]

the President was saying terrorism. I assume they have a good basis for that?
Yeah, I think they have a pretty good basis for saying it was a terrorist attack.

[TheBathroomSink]

Tim Farron has reelased a statement condemning Loathsome's remarks, Sam Coates at the Times tweeted the image of it which I've added

[MerryMarigold]

ok thanks. I thought the weapons were fake other than gun. but anyway...I shall hold my own horses until they have a bit more proof.

[Chalalala]

I've read both about the weapons, so not sure!

[DoinItFine]

Andy Haldane at the Bank of England recommends a lowering of interest rates, and possibly other measures, in August once forecasts are in.

Uses amusing Shawshank Redemption comparison:

I would rather run the risk of taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut than taking a miniature rock hammer to tunnel my way out of prison – like another Andy, the one in the Shawshank Redemption.

And yes I know Andy did eventually escape. But it did take him 20 years. The MPC does not have that same “luxury”.

:)

[Helmetbymidnight]

Would you prefer to call it mass murder?

[Peregrina]

Let's think about the timetable for enticing our Trade negotiators back from Brussels - prepare and publish job ads - couple of weeks maybe. Allow what, 1 month for applicants, spend 2 more weeks preparing short list, 2 more weeks doing interviews, finalising job offers, say another 2 weeks, allow 2 more weeks for candidates to accept, candidates give 3 months notice; all the better part of six months.

I was a Civil Servant, and they are notoriously slow at recruiting people. Then there's the Security vetting required.

But Brexit means Brexit, so we trigger Art.50 before we have been able to get any Trade Negotiators in place. Clever!

[Chalalala]

Bless Tim Farron's socks, he's at least trying to offer some sort of opposition in this country.

Any statement reaction from our friend JC about this?

[prettybird]

The Spectator article by Alex Massie is interesting. He is normally the most rabid keen of Unionists, for whom the idea that Scotland would ever achieve independence was unthinkable, yet even he is starting to conceive that the Union might break up. Not that he agrees with it - but knowing his past articles, that is a massive change.

[derxa]

A Daily Mail hatchet job on Leadsom. TM will give her a few months and then she'll be out. What a very odd woman.

[MerryMarigold]

Helmet, if it is mass murder by a complete nut who is not involved with any organisation - then yes, I would prefer to call it that. Of course it is still terrifying but it has completely different connotations if it's not organised.

[howabout]

In a country where 25% of all women are subject to domestic abuse and more than 1 woman a week is murdered by a current or ex spouse it seems odd that TF and co are more fixated on AL's attitude towards male nannies.

Just my knee jerk reaction to the deep seated misogyny on display from all sides.

[Chalalala]

the way I see it AL's hateful comments towards male nannies are also the product of her own misogynistic view of the world (it's women who belong with children, so men who want to do the same must be 'unnatural', etc)

[DoinItFine]

Peregrina - that is an extremely optimistic timetable

Couple of weeks to prepare and publish job ads?

But who will sign them off?

How much will we have to pay them to come back?

[Helmetbymidnight]

But that's how IS work now.

They have put a call out to everyone in the world to do terrorism in their name. That is organised. The lone killer is the new face of terrorism. And that makes it virtually impossible to stop.

[nauticant]

It was my understanding that the UK was not allowed to start any formal trade negotiations with non-EU countries as long as it was still part of the EU?

This is what worries me. How much control of the situation does May have when right from the start Brexit Cabinet members are going to steer things by briefing The Sun with magical thinking-derived misinformation? The very least I'd expect is consensus within the government that policy is now going to be based on facts and the time for disseminating lies by ministers is definitely over.

But here is one big problem. If a minister were to be disciplined by the PM for spreading Brexit fairy tales that certain elements of the media quite like there would be unroar and the PM would get a kicking. It just shows how this situation is totally fucked up in so many respects.

[DoinItFine]

But maybe he wasn't inspired by IS.

We don't know yet.

[BigChocFrenzy]

I also find red's threads a refuge wrt Nice, because of the calm here helping my own complex mix of reactions & emotions:

As a human being, I'm horrified and so sad at all these barbaric atrocities and the suffering they cause.

As a mixed race English-Arab Coptic woman, I'm repelled & disgusted by threads degenerating into racism both after terrorism or after sexual attacks like Cologne, Rotherham

Also from the Arab Coptic history: our communities descend from those who became Christians after the Romans spread these beliefs in the first century AD.
Christians were 20% of the ME population even in the early 20th century, but persecution has reduced this now to 2%, as Coptic Arabs flee to the West. My own extended family joined this diaspora a few years ago - none of us now live in the ME.
So, I'm well aware of how the change to agressive Islam has affected the ME, for both Christians and secular Muslims

As a radical feminist, following the Cologne attacks against women I was furious at the disgusting denial & minimisation of by "progressives" and the lack of interest by Labour politicians in particular - a common theme that the current leadership see women as less important than ideology ?

Real ife is so complicated, with so many strands to untangle and consider.
Sorry, longwinded, but just wanted to thank everyone here for being so sensible and tolerant.

[Helmetbymidnight]

BTW I can understand you being reluctant to call it 'islamic terrorism' but I don't see why we would hesitate to use the word terrorism given the intention, the context and the devastating result.

[Helmetbymidnight]

• Sorry, re. bringing events in Nice on this thread.
  

Merry, let's take it outside :)