Westminstenders Contines. Boris outmaneovered everyone?! Now War and Peace?

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD TEN

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This set of threads started out asking if Boris had been outmanoeuvred by Cameron handing him a poison chalice. Fate made it seem as if Boris lost the battle but May has confounded everyone and handed him a second chance. Or so it might seem.

May now has a new Cabinet after a sweeping cull of Cameron's lot. It is more right wing than in a generation. A number of appointments have raised eyebrows. There are plenty of poison chalices and plenty of Brexiteers. Will this create peace in the Tory ranks? Or is it just the calm before the storm

Labour are tearing themselves apart what now seems to be all out civil war. Talk of gerrymandering, violence, disenfranchisement, deselection and intimidation are rife. The seems to be no end in sight, and no prospect of a solution apparent. The question perhaps seems to be when and how, rather than if the party will split, and who will retain the name and party funds.

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So the sad face of British politics in the last two days can be summed up in a single image. Boris and a brick.

Depressed?

I think we have a while to go yet before we hit the bottom.

Excuse me with the intros as I'm starting to struggle to keep up with things myself

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2684990-The-Westminster-Hunger-Games-Contines-May-Day-May-Day Previous Thread Nine

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen 11m11 minutes ago
(I spent two years as a government lawyer as part of WTO procurement agreement team. Hardly any more forward at end than at beginning.)
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David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen 9m9 minutes ago
(Negotiations started in 1996 on revised WTO procurement agreement. Ended 2011. In effect 2014. Trade negotiations take a lot of time.)
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medium.com/@matatatatat/the-terrifying-hubris-of-corbynism-6590054a9b57#.ekvjrwts3

An interesting analysis on Corbyn (I speed read it a bit towards the end). His conclusion is a bit vague though - an electable Corbyn. That's what most people see to be agreeing on. But it doesn't address the question of what to do if Corbyn refuses to stand down. It's all getting a bit cyclical.

Insider story of the reshuffle - ouch!!

I see Corbyn like Neil Kinnock and Ed Miliband (and prob Angela Eagle): rightly or wrongly, and whatever their merits, not sufficiently appealing to general electorate

Hypothetical and not really developed idea for discussion by those of greater knowledge than me: What if TM cut a deal with NS where the union remained, the U.K. left the eu, then Scotland went back in with govt support and uk govt underwrote the money side - on the basis that Edinburgh provided Euro passporting base? Win win? Or woo woo?

Juba, I think that might just be genius.

juba I'm not pretending to be an expert but my understanding is there's not a cat in hells chance Scotland could enter the EU in its own right so the plan falls down from there on.

I think it's woo woo

Even though I've mentioned a "Reverse Greenland" as a possibility, I don't actually think it's a viable option .

I think the best that Scotland could hope for is a "holding status" (or pen as it's been described) while its independence is finalised. And that would assume that the Scots would vote for independence in an Indyref2, which is by no means a foregone conclusion.

Oh.

Juba, if Scotland retain EU membership and the London Passporting base they would fuck off out of the U.K. As fast as their legs can carry them. Your deal would be brilliant for Scotland but a disaster for the rest of the U.K.

The real sticking point is going to be the Irish border. Not a cat in hell's chance that anyone will want to go back to controlled borders.

Juba - the germ of a great idea! Scotland wants to stay in the EU, keep the status quo etc. It's England who want to leave and change everything. So ask the English electorate (and Welsh) if they want to leave the UK so they can then leave the EU. I think you'd get a very different response. Maybe that'd put them off.

Thanks all for great analysis. Have read from the beginning and this has helped to keep me sane.

Just one thing to add on Clegg. I could have forgiven a lot, though I'd never vote LM, but colluding in the Tory lies about Labour having single handedly wrecked the economy was pure cynicism. It was at its worst during the last election campaign when he practically salivated over that note Cameron kept waving around. Austerity was partly built on that lie and look where we are now.

I read an interesting article in Le Figaro today. Admittedly my French is GCSE, but from what I understood, Brexit has caused the us to back off from the ttip deal they've been negotiating for years and come back with worse terms in both customs and regulatory approvals.

The EU are not exactly going to be exceptionally thrilled with the U.K. If their external trade deals all have to be renegotiated too on worse terms. It also sets up an entirely bitter and untrustworthy basis for negotiations which is not a great idea.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jeremy-corbyn-appointed-and-sacked-shadow-minister-without-telling-her-while-she-was-undergoing-cancer-treatment/ar-BBuqeBW?ocid=spartandhp

Kesstrel thanks for linking to that reddit article, I really enjoyed reading it.

Aw. I though I was onto something. Scotland needs repopulating so could accept free movement (ostensibly England wouldn't...but to all intents would) - maybe they could zone visas so right to work in Scotland only - so leave voters happy England, remain voters happy Scotland. The terms of the deal could be set up so Scotland couldn't leg it, in exchange for govt supporting their eyes application and providing financial ballast. Edinburgh is pretty set up for financial function - not suggesting any physical movement of the city, just use as a base that's still within the eu. I don't know anything about Ireland so can't comment on implications for them. Not saying it's dependant on Scotland voting for independence- my model is for them to be IN UK but also IN EU, while we are out. We wouldn't need a border if it was an agreement between us. Scotland/England could retain status quo on all domestic trade. Maybe???

EU, not eyes

Sorry juba but it's ridiculous to say "leave voters happy England". Millions of people in England voted remain. In terms of numbers there are more unhappy with Th result in Eng.and than in Scotland. I'm a bit fed up with all this Scotland voted stay and england voted leave rhetoric because it takes away the voice of the millions of English remain voters that are just as much being dragged out against their will as any other group.

Rant over, sorry.

And just to add, the reason the Scottish are being focused on as a group is they actually have the possibility of doing sometching about it which makes the other groups even more voiceless in comparison.

I unstandard and fully support Scotland's position, who can blame them! But i feel someone needs to stand up for the English remain voters too.

Wouldn't Remain be happy if we kept the city, and had access to single market/eu grants and so on via an agreement with Scotland? Or will nothing except ignoring the referendum result satisfy? At some stage, reality bites. Whether we like it or not.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36820756

Johnson's plane make emergency landing on its way to Brussels.

Yes.

Really.

Do you think it was really because Johnson, started having a panic attack and started screaming

"PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME GO! PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME APOLOGISE AND SUCK UP TO EVERYONE. PLEASE MUMMY I WANT TO GO HOME. I DIDN'T REALLY MEAN LEAVE. I NEVER REALLY WANTED TO BE PM"

And the tweet of the day goes to...

This starts well.
We're fucked.