Westminstenders Contines. Boris outmaneovered everyone?! Now War and Peace?

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD TEN

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This set of threads started out asking if Boris had been outmanoeuvred by Cameron handing him a poison chalice. Fate made it seem as if Boris lost the battle but May has confounded everyone and handed him a second chance. Or so it might seem.

May now has a new Cabinet after a sweeping cull of Cameron's lot. It is more right wing than in a generation. A number of appointments have raised eyebrows. There are plenty of poison chalices and plenty of Brexiteers. Will this create peace in the Tory ranks? Or is it just the calm before the storm

Labour are tearing themselves apart what now seems to be all out civil war. Talk of gerrymandering, violence, disenfranchisement, deselection and intimidation are rife. The seems to be no end in sight, and no prospect of a solution apparent. The question perhaps seems to be when and how, rather than if the party will split, and who will retain the name and party funds.

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So the sad face of British politics in the last two days can be summed up in a single image. Boris and a brick.

Depressed?

I think we have a while to go yet before we hit the bottom.

Excuse me with the intros as I'm starting to struggle to keep up with things myself

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2684990-The-Westminster-Hunger-Games-Contines-May-Day-May-Day Previous Thread Nine

How could that ever work juba?? Either practically or politically?

I don't know if it could...I posted it in the spirit of offering up something, rather than just blanket denial. I am worried about talking down/stalling; I think there is every possibility of a deal being done - one that hopefully is acceptable to the majority. But I don't think it is helpful to look to turn the clock back.

I'm not sure offering up pipe dreams is any more helpful than trying to turn back the clock.

My view is that the government have a duty to act in the best interest of the nation as a whole and that if, upon proper consideration, article 50 is not in the best interests of the nation then it should not be invoked. Of course that would take guts and self sacrifice and no politician will do that so we have a ridiculous situation where we potentially have a government knowingly pulling the trigger on a national suicide because no one has the guts to say "made a mistake, now to correct it".

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-lbc-show_uk_578bdf05e4b08078d6e8d838?12rvzrotfdjpxpqfr

This too has made me giggle.

Farage. Owned.

Re my last post, what is implicit, and should perhaps have been explicit, is that, of course, if there is some magical Brexit deal that is in the best interest of the country as a whole then of course that should be the course of action. It is just my personal belief that such a probably deal does not exist.

Well, I guess I will stay glass half full and you will stay glass half empty and both of us will have to wait and see.

Girl...what I mean is we are in this together. We all have to come through.

I think we are all trying to be optimistic and suck it up buttercup creative about various ways brexit might pan out, in order to find a workable solution. Some blue sky thinking is welcome!

Insider story of the reshuffle - ouch!!
Could anyone give a precis - I have reached my limit on free articles and am blowed if I am going to pay.

There is already a very highly developed relationship between Dublin and London for financial services, due to differential tax rates. I think this makes your plan somewhat fanciful jubajube as there would be no reason for either city to facilitate further competition from Edinburgh or indeed Aberdeen.

I agree with pp on Scotland's repopulation potential. I would think it entirely possible to have different EU immigration policies. The University sector is fully devolved and so I think there is potential for differential arrangements here as well.

Poor Federica Mogherini. having to brave a late night meeting with Boris. Maybe they can find her a chaperone.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tim-farron-i-wont-rule-out-creating-new-political-party-out-of-post-brexit-chaos-a7141906.html

Tim still talking about a new party.

Agreed. It just seems, although it was every vote counts, rather than a national/regional/county thing, that you could view it that NS has a mandate to remain and TM has a mandate to leave. Both have to satisfy their electorate. ( I think ) Scotland needs the Govts consent to have a referendum. I also think that there is perhaps no real appetite to leave the UK but there is a driving need to be recognised as an equal partner. Ergo, I think there is potential for something to be worked out, that brings wealth etc to Scotland and also gets rUK off a sticky wicket. Oh well, I will keep dreaming.

Chris Cook ‏@xtophercook · 8m8 minutes ago

Davis wants trade area perhaps 10x size of the EU. I'm curious about a trade area equivalent to 150% of Earth's GDP
Theory: David Davis is about to found the United Federation of Planets.

I think jubajube has tried to think constructively "out of the box".

The "reverse Greenland" (so called because Greenland - a sort of part of Denmark - chose to leave while Denmark itself remained) has been suggested by some as a way for Scotland to remain but England (and Wales) stay, but the constitutional arrangement was/is different there.

For one, Greenland was a dependency and Denmark was the state that had entered into the EU (EC at the time - another difference as it predates the current treaties)

It was the UK that entered into the EEC and now EU - not any of the constituent countries.

That's not to say that the EU might choose to be pragmatic enough to come to some sort of accommodation - in the same way that it showed flexibility when Germany was reunited.

But more realistically, I think where Scotland might be of use to the Remain voters across the UK is in delaying the invocation of A50 until the implications are fully understood. That might but I doubt it give enough people pause for thought that parliament might vote against it - or that a final deal goes out to referendum again God help us .

But May is playing a dangerous game: if she can't bring Scotland with her (and I don't see it happening), she can't delay invoking it forever. So either she pisses off the Scots (for thwarting the democratic will of Scotland) by imposing "without the Scottish position being safeguarded" or, if she is perceived as allowing the Scots to veto the process, she creates massive resentment within England of the Scots for "thwarting the democratic will of the UK".

Both scenarios potentially are the death knell for the UK.

She's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/17/trident-vote-abstaining-nuclear-submarines
Tomorrow: We shall be talking about nuclear war and the labour party.

That might but I doubt it give enough people pause for thought that parliament might vote against it.

At the moment, this is difficult to envisage, because even MPs who voted Remain are saying that we have to make the best of Brexit.

I agree Peregrina - I think it's highly unlikely. Especially with the disarray in the Labour Party. I don't think anywhere near enough of the MPs would have the courage to go against the "will of the people" - even if they genuinely believed that they should for the "good of the country".

It's crazy Prettybird, isn't it, that MPs would vote for something they didn't think was for the good of the country. I agree with Thegirlinthefireplace, it's national suicide but they don't have the guts to go against what they perceive to be the will of the people. They may be surprised that over time people's views may change. Everyone needs to write to their MPs asking them to do all they can to prevent the invoking of Article 50.

because even MPs who voted Remain are saying that we have to make the best of Brexit.

I really don't think anyone can say anything else atm, though. Not yet. Doesn't mean it won't happen but too early to say otherwise yet

My MP hasn't bloody answered me. A Remain in a Remain area/constituency

Swedish, my MP also remain in a remain area and my reply from him was total fob off

My MP hasn't answered either. I would be quite happy with a general letter of the form " I have had xxx number of letters on this, so this is my position, now."

Not good enough, is it thegirl? Hopeful mine will get voted out next election

x-post Peregrina