To feel really positive about leaving the EU

[kitty1976]

I know there has been lots of fear stories but in a few weeks since the vote we have managed to get a new PM who seems more than capable and we are now in control of our destiny without being ruled by an unelected and unaccountable EU. The EU has for a long time been a basket case and has condemned much of the youth of Southern Europe to decades of unemployment, it's a relief to be out. Do remember we are now free to negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of the world and most countries are not in the EU and seem to do well. There have been so many fear stories which have been peddled by self interest. I wonder in 5 years time how many remainers will be asking to rejoin the EU!!

peregrina
Lots of respect for you!

I have learnt so much in the last three weeks on mumsnet alone.

Valentine - I have just looked back and yesterday you said that you and your husband were two highly skilled and educated people , have you changed your mind ?
As for me reading a lot, I have a pretty reasonable understanding of most of what I read , by far I find the Guardian and the Independent have the most erudite journalists.

"I have a pretty reasonable understanding of most of what I read "

Apart from about bananas and metrication and............

I am posting the link that shows the London School of Economics study that gives an estimate of how many youngsters voted and how.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/young-people-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

A question to all older Leave voters now: if you knew that many youngsters (for whose future you were voting practically!) were going to vote Remain fmore than 70%), would you still vote Leave?
I don't want anyone to bring ageism into this please. I just want to know out of curiosity that if 90% of over 65s voted in referendum, they definitely and rightly knew it was a big responsibility to use their vote in this referendum. I truly appreciate that. I am curious as to how they see the will of the youngsters of this country??

donthaveto
I am repeating this: I wrote it to give a context of decision to move from UK. I really do apologise if it came across rude/egotistical. But don't focus on me. Please focus on others who are asking you direct questions.

Peregrina - you just don't make sense.
One minute you are talking about the youth of today leaving so no one will be paying for my pension , when I say that I too have been paying in to the economy and thus pensions , you then castigate me , I don't get it.
I am not forcing you to talk to me .
I am just sticking up for my self and I have had far more diatribe thrown at me than you have I can assure you.

"We will be able to do deals much more easily as we don't have to pacify 27 other countries"

But we don't have as much to offer as the EU does do we? Not as big a market, not as big an economy.

You realise the US deal that is being stalled is TTIP right? The one you all jumped on and didn't want us to sign ? There are also several other reasons why it is stalling, not least that US firms don't want to have to comply with EU saftey standards for food.

Our deals will be a lot more like the TTIP brexiteers didn't want, and a lot less like the mutually beneficial one that will eventually be struck with the EU.

Also talking about Australia, ok, Australia is currently the 19th biggest receiver of UK exports, but in the top 25 are 11 EU countries 8 of whom are in the top ten. Belgium alone takes 4 times as many exports from the UK as Australia does. A deal with Australia and other countries would need to make up for a hell of a lot if we were not to have free access to the EU markets.

Valentine - I don't understand your "context"
As for focussing on you - I have tried hard to speak to everyone.
I can assure you I have taken a lot of flack on here for the decision that I made , my heart is beating like a drum.
I do not mean to upset you I really do have the kindest heart but a lot of people have taken me to task .
I care deeply about people.
Take care.
Bertrand - LOL Thank you and good night

Maybe posters are not making sense to you because you have tied yourself up in knots donthaveto?

I haven't made any comment about the youth of today leaving. The only comment I made in that respect was to wonder whether Gisela Stuart as a German retained the right to live in the EU, which depending on which Brexit option was negotiated could be something denied to many others. I didn't say it, but if that is the case then I think she is being a bit hypocritical.

donthaveto
You don't seem to understand a lot of other things just like me. So never mind that. But we are still at the same place as ever. Not even one Leave voter has given an argument that is backed by solid facts/data.

BTW just to put it a bit more into context, Australia currently takes 1.2% of our exports, Brazil 0.7%, India 1.2%

If we have significantly impaired deals with the EU, then its going to be bloody hard work replacing chunks of that 44% isn't it?

smallfox
what are the logistics for that? I mean we live just besides EU block. We don't live in the Oz neighbourhood. So how do the exports reach there? How much will it affect the benefits of a trade deal with all the countries like Australia or India etc who are so far far away geographically?

smallfoxsome friends in finance / business have been kindly able to give me lots of time and patience to explain a lot of the ins and outs of trade/financial market situation in case of BREXIT. We should make finance/economics a compulsory subject for everyone at GCSE.

Peregrina - the bananas thing was a bit of a joke

Logistics are fairly low cost due to mass shipping of manufactured goods, 16% of what Australia imports are cars for example. Still big gaps to be plugged though.

Smallfox - "you have aligned yourself to them" once again assuming that all 52% are racist - I despair I really do .
I haven't aligned myself to any one and to be honest your attitude to the leavers stinks just as much any racist / xenophobe.

No, you voted with them, which means that you have voted with people that have voted out because of those reasons.

smallfox
Thanks a lot for explaining that.

I didn't say that "all were racist" thats a facile argument, I said you had aligned yourself with them. In fact the point here is that NOT all voters were racist, but to get the outcome you wanted you had to be allied with voters who were.

Myself I'd check that the way I was voting wasn't with the extreme right before doing so, it would certainly make me reconsider my position.

"Why have we more to lose, please explain"

So much more to lose. For example, we are very dependent on inward investment. Overseas investors are here largely for access to the single market (75% cited this as a key reason for investing in the UK in a recent survey). We are now in the very dangerous position of potentially losing this if we insist on ending free movement, which could have truly devastating consequences.

Whether you voted to leave or remain you need to look very closely at the options now available right now and fight for the best possible outcome.

What is Australia hoping to get out of a trade deal with UK? What concessions will they wring?

Valentine,

What type of argument do you want to see backed by 'solid argument and fact'? Clearly the future is unknown. No- one can tell you what trade deals will be negotiated or the trajectory of our economy outside the EU.

Frankly the spouting of statistics from the remain side is disingenuous as all they state is the losses and assume zero gains. Ridiculous!

The people have decided to roll the dice. May turn out terribly, may be the best thing the UK ever did. I suspect the reality is it will make far less difference than people think.

The endless peddling of 'ooh an investment decision has been delayed' is ludicrous. Of course it is a short term shock, did anyone think it would not be? Should people never do what they think is right due to short term economic shocks? Already confidence is starting to return and the devaluation has given our export sector a boost. Would love to redebate this in a couple of years, but you and your talented husband will be long gone by the to Canada or Australia (two proudly independent nations)....

NO ONE who shares s platform with Nigel farage gets respect from me

Donthaveaveto: The youth/pensions point is correct from a technical point of view. The UK pensions system is pay-as-you-go, so what you paid during your working life paid for those who were receiving pensions then. Your pension will be financed by those who are young now and will be working when you retire. If there are less of them, for example because local youth emigrate and there are restrictions on immigration, there will be less money for your pension. The system can be changed (Italy is in the process of doing this, for example)but it is expensive and unpopular in the short term. That very few people outside those who look at these things for a job understand this is one of the many failures of current political discourse.