To feel really positive about leaving the EU

[kitty1976]

I know there has been lots of fear stories but in a few weeks since the vote we have managed to get a new PM who seems more than capable and we are now in control of our destiny without being ruled by an unelected and unaccountable EU. The EU has for a long time been a basket case and has condemned much of the youth of Southern Europe to decades of unemployment, it's a relief to be out. Do remember we are now free to negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of the world and most countries are not in the EU and seem to do well. There have been so many fear stories which have been peddled by self interest. I wonder in 5 years time how many remainers will be asking to rejoin the EU!!

Oh, god, you're blaming the EU for Port Talbot? How so?

Here's an update

Oh FFS OP

please tell me what the EU has done for them.

It has held the UK government back from doing its absolute worst to us.

We have food banks because of UK government policies.
Young people can't get social security support because of UK government policies.
Brexit has handed this government a mandate to do whatever it likes, with no checks or balances.
Brexit has ensured that the majority of rights we take for granted will be cancelled.

Do you have a hot-line to the future? How do you know we'll get a Norway deal? And, given that our economy relies on the City, can you foresee us getting a Norway+ deal, including passporting for the City? Because, since our economy is massively different to that of Norway, we'll be stuffed without it.

As for house prices ... you realise that house prices fall when people are expecting a recession. House prices fall, not out of altruism, but because people lose their jobs and can't pay for a mortgage. So house prices fall because people can't buy houses. That may well include you.

The Brexit recession is expected to really kick in next year. Then there is predicted to be another, very substantial, recession when the deal - whatever that might be - becomes clear. The second recession is predicted on the grounds that whatever deal we get, it will be worse than the deal we had being in the EU.

Norway manages

Do you understand the terms Norway has with the EU?

don'thaveto Out of interest, have you been following all the media discussions of what sort of deals might be possible, and all the media speculation that none of these deals are certain; that it all needs to be negotiated?

No, YANBU! It FANTASTIC!! (So dont take a blind bit of notice from the desperate,ignorant, Project Fear mongers)

Lets pretend.........So one high ranking finance house discussed relocation to Paris last week. It took less than a day to ascertain approx costings of such a move.....less than half a day for the risk management team to assess the likelihood of France leaving the EU in the next 5 years....... less than a further half day to consider any other EU major capitals who WOULD be in the EU in 5 years ....whilst the costings team came back to show that the UKs long term forecast is actually already more competetive AND guaranteed in the long term. (something to do with the UK government actually being able to sign contracts on their own behalf). And thats all before we even start negotiating Brexit!

Remainers need to remember 6 vitaly important things...

1. the EU was/is failing and has been for a long time. What was supposed to be an 'equal, open trading bloc' turned into an unequal (debtors and creditors...guess who the creditors are) undemocratic political alliance.

2 , UK, France and Germany combined (almost equally) are responsible roughly for 50% of the EUs GDP, the other 24 nations make up the other 50%. In a system of one member one vote, you can see how thats working out for the Labour party.

1. The UKs export market is currently 40% to EU countries, 60% to the rest of the world. Thats 60% WHILST our hands are tied by Brussels re tariffs etc. (Hence the boom in overseas interest in pending freedom to trade) However, the EU figure is also skewed by whats called the 'Rotterdam' effect....that is goods travelling through Rotterdam onto other world destinations. (Its not just Rotterdam.....obviously) The 40% figure includes all goods passing through EU ports/countries.
2. The migrant crisis, is more than a crisis. Hungary are currently polling 70% against the EU directive in their upcoming referendum. Most member states wont allow an EU referendum, however, that doesnt mean no further action will happen. Anti EU political unrest is rife across all member states. This is not because of Brexit, we just got there first with a referendum.
3. Borders are going up all over the place in the so called Schengen zone......go figure. In short, Schengen zone...failed.
4. The EU is failing ......have I said that already, but perhaps remainers need to be reminded of the eurozone crisis....Greece is economically dead for as long as it now remains in the EU. Many more will follow Greece. (I genuinely hope Scotland dont commit suicide) In short, Eurozone.....failed.

Can the EU save itself? Yes possibly, if it starts to borrow massively and asks member states to pay off those loans. Will member states agree to that? Those that have no choice will (but as youve seen on the debtor/creditor scales....that never ends well), those that have a choice will refuse but lose in the one member one vote system. Oh and it also needs to agree to limit its freedom of movement policy. Which it wont.

The EU is the largest Emperors New Clothes scam ever seen on this planet, and isnt it marvelous watching Britain lead the way in cleaning it up! We are absolutely right in leaving asap.

Go Britain!!!!!

Garlicstake - because the EU has put a stop on how much steel we are allowed to sell thereby letting the Chinese with no restrictions sell as much (inferior) steel as they want and at a cheaper price , I might also add that UK steel is the best quality steel in the world. I am beginning to wonder why you remains are so negative about the UK why not move to the EU while you can if it means so much to you.

Garlicstake - yes I know only too well what this God awful government has done I am Labour through and through , I detest the Tories' what I am saying is please tell me how the EU has helped specifically ? Just out of interest are you Labour or Tory ?

I'm abroad just now. People are laughing their arses off at how stupid Britain is and plenty are speculating and rubbing their hands in glee at what a fucking mess this all is. They're all about what they can get out of it and what's in it for them. Plenty at this rate.

Lots to be positive about indeed, if you're a bargain-hunting speculator with some cash to spare, particularly dollars or Euros.

Oh and PS.....

Dear Remainers...the iron curtain isnt going up. The difference between buying and living in France pre EU to during EU was the ability to claim your state pension and benefits. The difference between travelling through european countries pre EU to during EU is 'UK citizens this way/Non UK that' they changed the signage... (With the exception of schengen of course.....but if yove not noticed, we're not in that)

Will all the screaming 'redundancies!' please provide your company names for verification. So far on MN there have been thousands. Redundancy is an open process so no problems in making it public. If you claim it, name it. Im sick of reading about these hundreds and thousands of alleged redundancies and yet not one tiny local paper has picked up in what would be the biggest story this month.

Of course, the hysterics are still united....and Im sure will carry on indefinately, but its completely and utterly UNFOUNDED. Hysteria. And ignorant hysteria at that.

Garlic and Japan yes, yes, I know all this, no one really knows what will happen but we are coming out so we will all just have to lump it I'm off to bed I'm knackered and I'll never get up in the morning , nice talking to you.

Losing a market for 40% of our trade isn't a good thing. The replacement markets haven't been established - and there is no certainty they will be. What will the resultant trade terms be like, I wonder?

Personally, I think the EU is under stress but I suspect it will restructure - with us outside it. I suspect, also, that globalisation isn't going anywhere soon (despite many people hoping this will be the case) and, as such, it's better to be in a large, powerful, trading bloc than outside it.

I'm glad you're positive, Chris. Truth is, no-one knows how this is going to turn out. Let's hope you're right.

All Ive listed is what we do know Cat......... all I hear from the desperate remain camp is dramatic speculation.

I utterly reject that last comment about views from overseas. Most countries (ignoring the obvious europhile desperation coming out of Germany and France) are absolutely behind us.

This article, a little old now, and written for a basic american audience (so understandable) pretty much sums it up. Remainers are still pretending leave voters are stupid. Remainers who think that are wrong.

www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-06-25/why-you-should-be-glad-britain-voted-for-brexit-to-leave-the-eu

Dont, it was the UK government that opposed EU proposals earlier this year to put a 66% tariff on cheap steel.

Germany and other EU countries imposed 13-16% tariffs, the highest they were allowed under existing EU rules.

The UK only imposed 6-9% tariffs.

This is from March 2016: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-35708741

"In other words, it's going to be doing exactly what the United States does."

Haha, no. The equivalent would be Minnesota seceding from the United States. See that word, 'united'? Like 'United Europe'? The Federal government exerts much more control over the American States than the EC does over the European ones, yet here we have people complaining about interference.

I don't know what usnews.com is. Both the Washington Post and New York Times warned that Brexit would be very damaging.

Siemens does a complete u turn on its pre referendum threats to its employees. They are absolutely here to stay. Where do I start a petition saying remain voters were misled? And can I scream and shout at them for being STUPID!!!!!!

Perhaps OP, this is a good place to start collecting prominent project fear u-turners?

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4529f98c-4786-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab.html#axzz4ELcLTliF

Garlic... agree it was a mickey mouse article (was I a bit subtle with the 'written for an american audience'?') but it brought it back to basics.

Are you refering to,this in the WP?

www.washingtonpost.com/business/beware-of-scary-brexit-headlines-pushing-you-to-buy-gold/2016/07/11/ce6d7c52-4775-11e6-8dac-0c6e4accc5b1_story.html

You are being quite spectacularly & staggeringly unreasonable, frankly.

Less than a month since the referendum & we have:

• A 57% increase in reported hate crimes (www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-hate-crime-racism-reports-eu-referendum-latest-a7106116.html) - & there WILL be far more incidents going unreported.
• Our economy going down the pan - as you've already been told, you need to look at the FTSE250 not the FTSE100 for a picture of the U.K. economy & it will be distorted by share-buying patterns in reaction to the weak pound: the speech by the Governer of the Bank of England that was meant to be as positive & reassuring as possible isn't actually much of either (www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/speeches/2016/speech915.pdf) - because we're stuffed & he knows it.
• Although written pre-ref, this article does a good job of explaining why a drop in house prices isn't actually a good thing: uk.businessinsider.com/george-osborne-on-brexit-analysis-uk-house-prices-mortgages-household-finances-2016-5
• Where trade deals are concerned, it took Canada 7 years to negotiate their trade agreement with the EU. Everyone loves Canada. We are currently persona absolutely non grata. It is not in their interests to give us a good deal - oh & the Norway Model Leave supporters are so keen on involves paying the EU about as much as we do/did as members & sticking to EU regulations but without any rebates or any voice. It's frequently described as "membership without a vote". That sounds like a fantastic deal, doesn't it? Really "taking back our sovereignty" there. Not at all, in any way, creating the exact set-up of governance by officials we didn't elect that so many Leave voters complained of. (I genuinely think you shouldn't have been allowed to vote if you thought that. Because if you so fundamentally misunderstood what the EU is & how it works, you've no business deciding on our membership of it. Like everyone in areas that voted to Leave despite being dependent on EU subsidies to function: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-cornwall-issues-plea-for-funding-protection-after-county-overwhelmingly-votes-in-favour-of-a7101311.html)
• UK academics are already being dropped from collaborations with people & institutions in the EU, for example: www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/12/uk-scientists-dropped-from-eu-projects-because-of-post-brexit-funding-fears With the decimation of our own Higher Education system & the loss of freedom of movement, brain drain is beginning as people look at accepting offers to make permanent moves abroad.
• The NHS (you know, the thing that ISN'T going to get all those millions of pounds after all...) needs staff from the EU. Immigration rules for countries outside the EU are relaxed specifically for healthcare workers (particularly to try to cope with the enormous shortage of nurses we are experiencing - about 9% of the workforce) & the "homegrown nurses" they're promising 1) take time to grow 2) will all be newly qualified & 3) are expected to drop in numbers again with the loss of bursaries. It's not just about staffing, either: www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/articles/brexit-and-nhs
• As far as job losses go, 5% of businesses surveyed by the IoD were planning to make people redundant as a result of the ref (www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/26/city-of-london-expecting-further-post-brexit-losses-when-trade-reopens); & one in five are considering relocation (www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eu-referendum-brexit-businesses-leave-london-passporting-single-market-frankfurt-amsterdam-paris-a7113131.html). We are also looking at the curtailment of job-creation - for example, LUSH have announced that they'll now expand their operation in Germany rather than the original Dorset factory: no job losses, but no future growth, either: m.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/14601945.Lush_founder__Voters_said_they_don_t_want_our_EU_staff___we_ll_grow_our_business_in_Germany_instead/

And the list of reasons goes on & on & on, but I need to get up now, so I have to stop. Leave voters seem to do a very good line in waffly-vague pronouncements about it being the right choice, but then can't back that with how any of this won't be a disaster. I really REALLY want to know, because I feel sick every time I think about it...

Anyone would think Britain is actually leaving the EU.

Wake me up when Article 50 is triggered. Zzzzzzz.

we are now in control of our destiny without being ruled by an unelected and unaccountable EU

We were never controlled. The EU is not unaccountable.

People seem to be really out of touch with what most of the voting electorate thinks and when the majority of people disagree then just call them stupid!!!

Not most of the electorate, 37%. Versus the just under 35% who wanted to remain.

I will never be glad that this country is leaving / has left the EU. For me it's an assault on my core identity.

I lived and worked in a non-EU country for two years. I was on a time limited (expensive for my employer) visa & certainly was not allowed to settle there. It was nothing like me (currently) deciding to up sticks & move to (say) France. Thinking about it I also took part in a student work experience thing with New Zealand - again nowhere near as straightforward as within the UK - limitations on what I could do & how long I could stay. Incidentally something I learned there was how New Zealand farming was damaged when they lost one on their biggest markets overnight (us - when we joined the EU). I was there twenty years later & they were still struggling - these were ordinary people who were affected directly. What goes around I guess.

Luckily my children will be able to get Irish passports so should have the same freedom of movement as I had but I would like their friends to have the same opportunities. My youngest announced he wanted to live in Finland yesterday - I told him he'd need to become Irish first.

It's a huge loss off opportunity to their generation.

I'm really excited about this new chapter in our history. I give the EU 10 years, 15 at most in its current form. Short term financial instability is expected but in the long run I think we will be a far more flexible and dynamic world player. Employers will be able to choose from a worldwide talent pool in a level playing field, we can negotiate our own trade deals. Quite a few countries out there manage without being part of a machine like the EU which is largely comprised of countries with whom we share little constitutional, financial or legal similarity. Every treaty we hand over more and more power to an institution which is alien to most British people as we match ever onwards to a federal states of Europe ruled by Germany and a megalomaniac from Luxembourg. We are free!

I'm wondering just how the EU had supposedly failed generations of southern Europeans op? It is generally true that citizens of Italy, Greece and to some extent Spain and Portugal are very averse to doing something called PAYING TAXES. Certainly in Italy, with Berlusconi being regularly voted back in, all manner of Leghista loons trying to divide the country and a bloated civil service that is neither civil nor servile, not forgetting the money that the mafia creams off for any project going, one could argue that their latest banking crisis is of their own making.

The EU has for a long time been a basket case and has condemned much of the youth of Southern Europe to decades of unemployment, it's a relief to be out.

It's funny how everyone thinks the EU is doing so well when everyone on the outside can see it's a basket case

You keep parroting this line, but show no evidence actually backing it up. You've said a whole lot of things which sound like they were lines learnt from someone, but can't actually answer a question to save yourself.