Will someone explain to me why a split Labour Party would be so awful (also Tory Party for that matter but it looks like they are papering over the cracks - for now)

[crossroads3]

That's all really. It's clear that both main parties are unrepresentative as they are constituted at present.... Why is everyone so scared of a realignment more in line with what voters want / need?

A split Labour party would theoretically split votes ensuring that neither half of the split had any prospect of getting into power anytime soon.

They do need to split though into old labour and new labour - the two sides are just too different to ever reconcile

They do need to split though into old labour and new labour - the two sides are just too different to ever reconcile

Agreed, since and including blair and recent government we have had too much conservatism which has lead to the UK having highest inequality.

Is it because FPTP would mean a split Labour Party would mean a permanent conservative government?

Is it because FPTP would mean a split Labour Party would mean a permanent conservative government?

UKIP and greens I think would see a big upswing, lib dems would have previously.

Just out of interest, can we put the parties on a continuum from left to right? It's striking me that the left is more splintered than the right. Which is bad in our voting system.

I'll try, you correct me. Going from right to left:

UKIP
Conservatives
LibDems
SNP
Labour
Greens

At the moment, it feels like the conservatives have grabbed the centre and the left is squabbling for scraps.

At the moment, it feels like the conservatives have grabbed the centre and the left is squabbling for scraps.

This is the worrying thing that the perception that they are centrist and sit fairly in the middle.

(courtesy of political compass)

That chart doesn't ring true - who are 'political compass'?

Yes, it's a huge problem that FPTP effectively means that centrists can't vote for a centrist party, leads to polarisation. Anyone old enough to remember the doldrums of the Foot/Kinnock years, the doomed hope of the SDP and then the Alliance? If Labour do split then FGS moderates, get yourselves together in some sensible way with libdems asap instead of wasting the opportunity.

At the moment Labour have 230 seats. If a split resulted in 115 seats for Corbynite Labour and 115 seats for Blairite Labour then that would be fine (although the coalition negotiations would be fun if they ever gained enough seats to get that far, and you'd wonder why they went to the trouble of splitting)

But the problem is that there are quite a lot of current safe labour seats which would be split 30% CL, 20% BL, 35% Conservative 10% Lib Dem 5% Other, which would go Conservative under FPTP.

I bet there's a lot of non-corbynite labour people now who would be appalled to be termed 'Blairite'! What would the name for the new party be - 'Really New Labour' ? And quite a lot of trad safe labour seats would probably also find quite a lot of vote going not to CL/RNL but to UKIP, just to make things worse.

Someone should just have done with it and start 'The Centre Party'.

Just call it what it is, no need to prove your right or left credentials by doing barmy 'traditional' right or left stuff.

Simply cherry pick the best ideas from all parties and run with it.

Everyone's a winner!

I think Labour should go back to its roots, and yes, split in two if needs be. Blair moved the goalposts too far. Why don't the New Labour supporters merge with the Lib Dems?

That chart doesn't ring true - who are 'political compass'?

Its an attempt to address when people just use the blunt terms left and right as there is another dimension to it. I find this answers very well for me why I have become so disenfranchised with the main parties.

I just did the test BreakingDad - I was at where I came out.

I thought I would be pretty central on both axis.
I came out almost at Green Party (and I think they're a crazy bunch!).

Agree with tiggy tape, obviously this isn't perfect but it does try to capture these subtleties like ID cards etc.

Labour have probably moved down the graph a bit but not sure how much to the left.

Nooooo!!
They're loons!
(I think.... )
I was very, very shocked indeed.

My result was close to yours Mango. I'd like to be able to vote for a Labour party which was left-wing and libertarian, instead of right-wing and authoritarian! With all the largest parties in the top right square, it's no wonder that people often say the parties/politicians are "all the same".

Depends which Labour Party you are talking about

Under Blair, New Labour was definitely between the Conservatives and the SNP on the left/right continuum

Even now, the voting records in parliament would suggest that the SNP are to the left of the PLP - at least they bother to vote rather than abstain or just not turn up

I didn't take the test, but I found this critique of it:
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_Compass

Obviously, we might all calibrate the test differently if we were its authors because human beings alway shave a point of view, including this test's designer.

Still interesting though.

Plenty of critiques of rationalwiki too...