Will someone explain to me why a split Labour Party would be so awful (also Tory Party for that matter but it looks like they are papering over the cracks - for now)

[crossroads3]

That's all really. It's clear that both main parties are unrepresentative as they are constituted at present.... Why is everyone so scared of a realignment more in line with what voters want / need?

Those few mp's on the far left of the party can always go and joint the socialist Labour Party

If there is a split we will have a Tory government for the next 10 years at least as it will take time to rebuild a centre left party which is what the Labour Party is

Or those on the right can join the LibDems or Tories, leaving Labour to distance itself from them.

The concern is that if the Labour Party splits the Tories will be in power for the next decade. The fact is that the Labour Part has already lost the last two GE's and is no more likely to win the next one with Angela Eagle at the helm than Jeremy Corbyn.

Possible positive outcome: Labour Party splits. Over all the two parties manage to attract a larger amount of votes, thus keeping the Conservatives from winning an overall majority. Then the the two labour parties have to form a coalition with each other!

The new labour should just go and join libdem party,they reflect liberal values more accurately.There is no need to split and fight over who keeps the brand name "Labour".

If we had a leader that united the party we could win in 2020 right now we don't

It is just a few on the left Corbyn being one of them that is causing the party to split. Labour is not a purely socialist party and never has been and politics in general has moved more to the centre.

Why create a new party when there is a socialist Labour Party already waiting for more members

We have not only lost two general elections we also did very badly in the last local elections after all the damage the Tories have done we couldn't even gain then. Unless we have a leader that appeals to more people we shall have a Tory government after the next general election.

What is baffling to me is that many JC supporters admit he will never be PM yet still support him being leader

well why did we loose last 2 general elections? Maybe because people could not identify themselves with new labour leaders and policies!
Corbyn has massive grassroots supports and I suspect would win a lot of electorate . Its only PLP and their tiny,but rich and powerful support base, that against him-professional politicians that lost touch with reality and only concerned about winning elections.But average voter sees that none of new labour have policies that differ much from tory policies.Corbyn politics are about bringing change(much needed ),not wining elections for the ruling elite and maintaining status quo.
Latest NEC antiques of denying votes to new members and hefty £25.00 fee is showing how disrespected and undermined working class is in this county. We're supposed to BUY democracy now?
I suspect their tactics will fail and Corbyn will win in first round AGAIN,maybe even with a bigger mandate!

Well all these grassroot supporters you talk about didn't support him in the local elections and he wasn't able to reach out to them during the referendum

Another pr spin grassroot supporters . we know many labour supporters have abandoned labour and voted UKIP so I would suggest their ideas are not more to the left

Grassroot voting all changed under Thatcher after politics became more centre. There is support for left policies I think the social Labour Party got about 5000 votes at the last general election

The grassroot supporters I have seen turning up to support Corbyn are mainly students and middle class socialists plus a few militant trade unionists

Are you out of touch with reality too? Over hundred thousand of supporters joined labour after referendum(these are grassroot supporters)
And what is your point about The grassroot supporters I have seen turning up to support Corbyn are mainly students and middle class socialists plus a few militant trade unionists?
ALL 4 main trade unions back Corbyn actually not a few militant ones.
Students are usually progressive thinkers and are the drive behind most political changes (all over the world) so not sure why it is something to be minimised.
Myself? Probably belong to second option described by you,but took a test featured above and my result is slightly left/ slightly libertarian .Hardly far left !

Labour Party membership is just that people who pay to be a member of the party who have an interest in party politics. the vast majority of voters are interested
in policies that can be implemented that they will benefit from and having a good PM they have confidence in. They didn't have confidence in Ed.

Corbyn will be absolutely trashed leading up to a general election due to his connections with the IRA and his friends Hamas and Hezbollah. Also we shall be reminded of his constant rebelling agains his own party (what was it all for) and his appearances on Iranian state television that he earned nicely from (and earned far more for a few hours than many do in a few months)

In case voters are unaware or have forgotten the principled man will be shown to be not so principled after all.

Oh God another ignorant smear campaign spreader!
It was repeatedly said last year that he'd never win leadership contest and he's done it with ease last year and most likely do this year too.
If he's so unelectable why PLP tried so hard to keep him off the ballot? Why NEC imposed rules of new members being unable to vote?
We'll just have to wait and see the leadership results and take it from there!

No not out of touch. 100000 extra votes would make little impact on a general election

Students grow up most of us have far more grounded views as we get older and have experienced life as an adult. And where was there vote to remain or leave 64% thats not the turn out I would expect from progressive students that drive change.

And it's union leaders that are backing Corbyn,
members not necessarily so

princesmi12 Like.

Enthusiasmdisturbed Unlike.

(In the absence of MN clickable like buttons)

Because they know he will not win a general election and they want labour to be in power

It was a surprise he won to many but again this is a vote of a small number of people it's didn't reflect how the public voted in the local elections and his unconvincing performance in the referendum campaign

Enthusiasm
And why do you assume that those that would support Corbyn in general election are only hundred thousand ?This hundred is the most ACTIVE ones and joined labour party,trying to take part and make a difference. Most electorate are apolitical until it comes to choosing between few parties on the election day. I'd suspect Corbyn has more quite silent supporters then it's led to believe.

I am sure he will win a leadership challange again

And then the Tories shall win the general election in 2020

Wonderful for the Tories

As I said before he will be trashed by the media coming up to a election you can't deny that

Do you really think he will win over those who are wavering his connections are his downfall plus his has shown to be an incompetent leader of his own party

Hardly points that will appeal to voters

It has just been announced that Angela Eagle has dropped out of the leadership race and shall back Owen Smith

there is hope yet we shall win in 2020

Anyone with a brain cell sees why he's being trashed by the media.
He's not part of the establishment and is not ready to negotiate deals with tories behind closed doors.
Common man is fed up with status quo and as shown by brexit vote,unwilling to listen to elite.
I voted out and hate when corbyn is blamed by not persuading me enough to vote in.
My point is people don't necessarily believe main stream media and able to make decisions based on policies and not charisma of a party leader

I actually don't dislike Owen

Ed Millaband was trashed

But he didn't have connections with the IRA and so on that makes it so easy

His appeal is meant to be that he is a principled man that can so easily be pulled apart and questioned and will be and should be

It's not about charisma or lack of it

Ed Miliband didn't have any policies that stand out that's why he failed
Corbyn on the other hand does

Corbyn is a decent activist & back bencher but he's a shit leader.
Not his fault, some people can be amazing workers but God-awful leaders - he's one of them.

Owen Smith is still wittering on with his misapprehension re people regretting their Leave vote - promising another referendum etc.
FUCK OFF OWEN!

Stop drivelling on about Brexit and start coming out with some good, believable, achievable policies for moving forward & start being a rigorous & effective opposition and I may be swayed.

Are any of you old enough to remember the last Labour formal split. It meant more Tory governments until Labour grew up and elected John Smith. What might have been ....

corbyn has ideas we don't hear much more on how he would implement them or nothing new.
People didn't connect with Ed many didn't like that he won because of the support from the unions if David had won I am quite sure we would have a labour government now and probably wouldn't have had a referendum

but regardless he is unelectable

As a labour party member I don't want to vote for Smith or Corbyn but will vote for Smith despite some stupid comments from him. I'm pretty sure that Corbyn is going to win again and I think I'm going to have to find a new political home (for general elections at least. Hopefully Welsh Labour can hold themselves together in the Assembly and in the councils).

I completely agree Enthusiasm