Will someone explain to me why a split Labour Party would be so awful (also Tory Party for that matter but it looks like they are papering over the cracks - for now)

[crossroads3]

That's all really. It's clear that both main parties are unrepresentative as they are constituted at present.... Why is everyone so scared of a realignment more in line with what voters want / need?

Yes, I remember the old Labour under Michael Foot - one who was absolutely fine as an activist and a man of principle but a complete disaster as a leader.

Trampoline - yes. John Smith's untimely death was an all-round tragedy.

Unfortunately for the labour party (and probably the country) it doesn't seem to have anyone of the same calibre nowadays. Come the next general election, Owen Smith might not be quite so unappealing to the electorate at large as Corbyn but I can't see him being much of a positive pull.

An interesting question is WHY the Labour party doesn't have anyone of the same calibre nowadays...

Because Blair made it all about him.

While right wingers of any calibre joined the tory party, and left wingers were shut out of the Labour party, all you ended up with in Labour was a party of crap right wing MP's that now no one wants anymore.

There are various able, experienced, principled labour politicians, but they're tainted by being labelled 'blairite' or 'brownite' or because they were horribly mislead about Iraq.

tainted by being labelled 'blairite' or 'brownite' or because they were horribly mislead about Iraq.
But they made a choice to vote for the war and now,knowing it was wrong choice,they have to pay for their mistakes.

But they made a choice to vote for the war and now,knowing it was wrong choice,they have to pay for their mistakes.

They made the choice after being wilfully & woefully misled by Tony Blair.

Nobody who voted for that war in good faith, based on the information they were given at the time 'needs to pay' for anything.

The only people who 'need to pay' are those people that knew what was really going on.
That is Tony Blair and the others singled out in the Chilcott Report.

I would think, after the Smithster has been humiliated in losing his challenge, the right wingers (including Smithster) will all fuck off or get the boot.

Errol Labour was built on a principle of pacifism and these new Labour right wing MP corporate stooges simply went with their natural tendency. To favour war. Which was not what they were elected to do. Misled or not they certainly misled the public in misrepresenting the Labour Party's core principles.

Nobody who voted for that war in good faith, based on the information they were given at the time 'needs to pay' for anything.

Only up to a point. They could have questioned as Robin Cook did. You have to assume that they chose not to.

Hasn't it always had pacifist and non-pacifist wings? - participating in coalitions in both world wars for instance.

There was a lot of questioning and debate at the time. But it was based on 'evidence' which turned out (well after the event) to be lies. Retrospective vision is a wonderful thing.

Hence Corbyn should be admired for his principal ,consistent views on the subject.

Hence Corbyn should be admired for his principal ,consistent views on the subject.

Yes he should, absolutely.

But that still doesn't make him a good leader.

Ok,so not getting a country into a war under false pretences and being trustworthy doesn't make him a good leader!
We probably have a different ideas of what taking responsibility for a country means.

I think we do have wildly differing ideas on what makes someone a good leader, yes.

I'll actually give the backbench Labour MPs the benefit of the doubt; but all those the Cabinet are co-culpable. At least Robin Cook resigned.

Corbyn from my perspective (and I acknowledge that it's through the filter of MSM coverage) is a crap leader. A leader also has to ensure that the nuts and bolts that will ensure their organisation can meet its objectives are sorted out. Not that he has to do them necessarily - but he has to ensure that someone in his Senior Management Team is doing it. (Branson is a good example: great at ideas, crap at detail - but always ensures he has a good No 2 to pick up the pieces and follow through on his ideas).

Corbyn has failed in the leadership role

"But they made a choice to vote for the war and now,knowing it was wrong choice,they have to pay for their mistakes."

And punishing them and us with a hopeless Labour leader condemns us to more Tory governments for longer. Thanks.