Just watched the Panorama programme on why people voted leave

[ssd]

and am livid

so many people who had zero fucking clue what will now happen to this country, so many wanting to have England back to how it was years ago, well guess what it wont fucking happen, time doesnt go backwards and the immigration wont get any better, it wont stop and it wont go away, all thats happened is this country will now be less competitive and the economy will tank, and when the economy tanks they have to get the money from somewhere and it'll come from the poor as the services they rely on will be cut, massively

and this was meant to be a protest vote!!

why dont so many leave voters actually realise what the are protesting about, lack of schools, housing, the nhs queues, has happened because the tory government have followed an austerity agenda we didnt even need and thats why there is a chronic shortage of housing/school places, as none of these services are being built and if you think voting leave and having a more right wing tory government in place will help these services out by christ you've got another thing coming

its fucking maddening

you don't all have to be "English" to have a sense of community though! Community is about people coming together to help each other, not about checking each other's passports.

Exactly, and that's what they were saying.
The community they had before had evolved with commonwealth migration etc and continued to be a community - it's that sense of community that has been eroded.

I think things will get better for the working poor. Not next week, or next year but in the next decade, yes.

I feel this thread is moving into smoke and mirrors.

Blaming the MC...who apparently think all WC are stupid. Ignoring the propaganda. Ignoring the fact that those who will be most affected are those in poorer areas...ignoring the propaganda..remember the propaganda

Goading as well...enjoy...especially when those you yourselves have devalued and downgraded on this post realise what the hell is happening to the money in their pocket, the food they can no longer afford to put on the table and the jobs in their areas. I hope you have answers then and I hope your pseudo intellectual exercise has been worth it.

I certainly hope so, yes.

The media will not try to find the well-reasoned, educated Brexiters because it does not fit with their agenda

This. I haven't seen it, but the BBC reportage since the vote has been very biased and in my view very irresponsible. Just whipping up hatred and uncertainty.

Sorry, that post was in response to:

do you really honestly think life will get better for the working poor now?

And also what willow said:

I think things will get better for the working poor. Not next week, or next year but in the next decade, yes.

I don't get why the House of Lords (unelected) is baaaaaaaaaad as we didn't get the chance to vote them in but
The EU is gooood as we didn't get the chance to vote them in.............I'm a bit confused.

In accordance with the rhetoric from the ivory tower dwellers who think the working classes just don't know what's good for them

I am the very definition of working class. I speak to 'the working class' aka my friends and family, on a daily basis.

Believe me, they/we did not know what they were voting for.

They voted the elite out, they voted to save the NHS, the voted to repoen our hospital, they voted in protest of SSI going down the shitter and the gove doing nothing to help to the detriment of Tata by the looks of things, they voted to stop immigration and they voted against Tory cuts.

I don't think it is a case of bad/good, but that people didn't think 'we don't have a perfectly democratic system in the UK, so who cares about democracy full stop.'

Living in a democracy - where sometimes the side you are not 'on' will sometimes win - is preferable, IMO, to living in a system where my own preferred policies are forced through coercion and with no public redress.

And do these people all employ Polish nannies?

Of course not.

Have they never ever set foot in a northern town?

Some of them have extremely narrow knowledge of the UK, TBH.

That's the insinuation here. That if you have a degree and a job which pays a salary rather than an hourly rate then you must be part of some elite whooping it up at the expense of everyone else.

What are you talking about? Millions of us have salaried jobs and degrees. Having them doesn't make you insular. Being insular is a choice.

Mother ain't no point. Let them play together and have fun whilst the actual working class we know and love suffer. What japes!

Where do you think the best place would be to move to? Not France, with Marine Le Pen, not Norway...Netherlands? Scotland?...we are seriously thinking about moving away from England. We are going to the Azores on holiday this year and am bothered that the rest of Europe will tar us 48% of Remainers with the same Brexit brush,,,,Am ashamed of being British. Din't see the programme as I find Panorama presents a spurious and often biased type of journalism

mango, seriously though, how will it get better? I'm not meaning to goad you and I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a snippy cow though I am, but I'm asking seriously, how will it get better for folk lkie me now?

Dd is desperate to move to the Republic of Ireland.

The art college she had her heart set on was funded by the EU.

I've tried explaining the effect a militarised border would have on Ireland but she doesn't care about that. She just wants to go to art college.

mango, seriously though, how will it get better? I'm not meaning to goad you and I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a snippy cow though I am, but I'm asking seriously, how will it get better for folk lkie me now?

I think we're all being snippy cows at times tbh, so no worries

The answer is:
I don't know.
Sorry.

I am working class too, lived in Scotland for a large portion of my life - single mum on sickness benefit at the mo but going to uni in Sept aged 41 (v mature student !)

My hope is that in the aftermath of all this (as in mid - long term after Brexit) our political parties will have dramatically restructured.
Without the EU, they will be directly responsible for our country's decisions & policies and 100% answerable to the electorate for anything they do - without 'but, EU!' to hide behind.

The referendum seems to have engaged great swathes of ordinary people again, by realising that they do actually have a voice.
Hopefully this will run on and transfer into more political engagement in General Elections etc.

It's all a great leap of faith tbh, and I know that infuriates many people, but I've personally been through lots of personal hardship, and optimism & hope is something that's always got me through.

(Totally prepared for a slagging off now for being naive...)

Has it occurred to anybody else that the people who really wanted us to stay in the EU could be aggravating this uncertainty to try to thwart implementing the referendum result? Cameron resigning, Jean-Claude Juncker egging things up, Theresa May suggesting to use people as pawns. Every time things start to quieten slightly they release something else.
I know it is scary, I have my worries too but wonder if the advice to refuse to let them panic us and wait and see has some merit

Sorry if I sound like my tinfoil hat needs adjusting

Makes sense to me Kummer.

And me.

Probably not an unfair assessment kummer. I know whilst the EU bigwigs are saying they want us out, there's some not so subtle manoeuvring out there saying that they can wait, we are in too big a political crisis right now. It's a great double hedge play, try to scare us into staying whilst playing everything as our crisis so even if we leave its our reputation that's dented. Not that we really needed their help right now thanks to our politicians but still.

I don't think so.

In the event of a leave vote it was obvious that Cameron would go, his party had attacked him and Osborne so much that one of them had to, he was the advocate for the EU, he failed, its why Gove and others signed the letter urging him to stay, that was their political expediency showing.

Cameron negotiating with the EU following leave would be untenable to the leave campaign, and in fact having been beaten so well by Boris and several cabinet ministers why should he?

What you have is what you voted for, not any "conspiracy" but what was warned of by many.

I think the phrase; " You made your bed now lie in it" is apt.

The mess is not of the remain camp's doing, look to the leave for instruction. It is ridiculous to campaign so vociferously for months and then say: " We thought others would have a plan."

It's not really conspiracy or tinfoil hat territory. Just standard politicking and spin.

Top end politicking and spin maybe

mango, I get what you mean, I've also always got through on a bit of a wing and a prayer and its worked so far....I just think the world is a different place from when I was a teenager and it frightens me for my teens who are facing it all, they'll need more than luck to get by the way the economy seems to be going.....

and well done you for going to uni, that's brilliant and I admire you enormously for doing what I've never done, getting off your butt and trying to change your life for the better, instead of moaning like I do!!