Just watched the Panorama programme on why people voted leave

[ssd]

and am livid

so many people who had zero fucking clue what will now happen to this country, so many wanting to have England back to how it was years ago, well guess what it wont fucking happen, time doesnt go backwards and the immigration wont get any better, it wont stop and it wont go away, all thats happened is this country will now be less competitive and the economy will tank, and when the economy tanks they have to get the money from somewhere and it'll come from the poor as the services they rely on will be cut, massively

and this was meant to be a protest vote!!

why dont so many leave voters actually realise what the are protesting about, lack of schools, housing, the nhs queues, has happened because the tory government have followed an austerity agenda we didnt even need and thats why there is a chronic shortage of housing/school places, as none of these services are being built and if you think voting leave and having a more right wing tory government in place will help these services out by christ you've got another thing coming

its fucking maddening

A people

That was a typo

A few people ....

Some of the youngest exponents of racism I have ever seen where primary schoolchildren. Bangladeshi and Pakistani.

Is it a coincidence that Liverpool voted to "remain", and is also a city that boycotts The Sun?!?

Genuine question.

Snow, I have wondered that as well.

I read somewhere that Labour went around slapping "EU paid for this" stickers all over Liverpool (on things the EU actually paid for). I'm not sure how true that is.

The Liverpool Echo and Manchester Evening News are both trinity mirror which were Remain. They have good circulations. Both promoted the regional benefits to their respective areas.

BUT that neglects several important points. Both Liverpool and Manchester have large younger than average populations - they are both university cities where large number of graduates stay on after leaving. Leeds also voted to Remain for similar reasons.

And they are all multi-cultural in large parts too.

Whilst I do think the lack of the Sun, might have an influence, I think its also too easy to look to that as THE major reason. Manchester and Leeds both have it.

I think its better to similar view the M62 corridor in a similar way to London in outlook and population.

Its when you get out to the provisional towns which are hugely white you can see the difference. Towns like St Helens for example (and notably has a large Liverpool following).

I also think that the influence of the media is a long term thing rather than just a referendum thing. Most people made up their minds long before the vote. I think only maybe 20% of the population made up their mind in the last week for example. Being pro or anti EU is something that has been ingrained into us over a long period of time in reality, even when people don't really know what it is. Their decisions were made up before - hence why they never felt the need to fact check or question things more.

Manchester and Liverpool are both booming so lots of new flats, shops and developments.

When I grew up Liverpool was really on its knees but it is amazing now and that prosperity and positivity is likely to have had an effect on the remain vote
Plus the fact that, as a major port, people there are maybe more used to immigrants?

Paul McNamara ‏@PGMcNamara · 1m1 minute ago
Full media strategy for war in #Iraq from 2002 - a YEAR BEFORE. Including a "list of 10 facts" for The Sun #Chilcot

As I say that, this just pops up, as if to prove my point.

Political line in the press - a long term strategy....

redtoothbrush, how does the fact Scotland voted to remain, square with your argument then? the whole of Scotland largely voted remain and we don't have a uni in every town, whole swathes of Scotland is very run down and mostly white, with very high unemployment, some people are even daft enough to buy the Sun...

Long term promotion of the EU by politicians (as well as parts of the Scottish only press) as a generally good thing. It was one of the key points about indyref. They wanted to be independent and stay in the EU.

Despite David Cameron being pro-Remain he has still spent many years bitching about the EU. Its be a key part of English politics and an corner stone of the conservative party.

Scottish politics since devolution rejected the Tory party.

Make of that what you will.

No problem with that conclusion, but we are agreed it would be wholly inaccurate, based on HelpfulChap's numbers, to claim that "most" BMEs (nor even close to a majority) voted Leave?

Agreed. Not a majority, but a sizeable proportion.

A people I know some friends of mine who are passionate remain supporters couldn't get their heads around bme's voting leave. Are they not as British and some have prejudice feelings as much as some white people

Not necessarily prejudice.

It's hardly surprising that people with Commonwealth heritage, for example (a large proportion on black and Asian Brits ), are less Eurocentric and more global in outlook.

Agreement with Just5! Hooray!

Although (just to nitpick) - let's say the figures were roughly correct and on average 30% of BMEs voted Leave. This does mean that the proportion of BMEs in favour of Leaving is lower than the population at large. So unless one was trying to disprove a straw man-type premise that only voted Leave, why make the claim that the Leave vote was significantly bolstered by BMEs?

Of course many brexiter voters whatever their cultural background will have more of a global outlook

The point I was making is that they couldn't get their head around that some BME have voted leave and their vote was influenced by (not necessarily totally) immigration policy and felt there are too many people coming into this county. It is their country just because they are not white they are still British

So unless one was trying to disprove a straw man-type premise that only voted Leave, why make the claim that the Leave vote was significantly bolstered by BMEs?

I'm always trying to disprove that Elements

The point I was making is that they couldn't get their head around that some BME have voted leave and their vote was influenced by (not necessarily totally) immigration policy and felt there are too many people coming into this county. It is their country just because they are not white they are still British

Oh absolutely.

I know several older generation British Jamaicans who never tire of telling me that this country has been "ruined" by immigration. I don't agree with them, but I don't doubt that it's a sincere view and I don't think you can call it prejudice. It's more nostalgia. They're very voluble about what was so great about the 50s and 60s particularly. However, when you prod them gently in a "what about this person (immigrant) or that person (another immigrant)" they are very positive about individuals. What they are really regretting is massive societal change.

What they are really regretting is massive societal change.

Agreed again! The world has changed massively, in so many ways. It must be totally bewildering especially for older people. Heck, I find a lot of the modern world a mystery (like why do our young people now communicate with each other using a series of stupid photos and WTF is Grindr ).

I think many people look back with rose tinted glasses. My dad does even though racial abuse was almost an everyday occurance

Though thinking that all BME's think alike and can't not possibly have any prejudice feelings themselves or a desire for the good old days like those pesky white working class racist voters and assuming they would support remain because they are BME prejudice in itself

Though thinking that all BME's think alike

Who has said that ?

That was what my post was about how some people I know (some friends) couldn't get their heads around BME voting leave

And my answer is well they are as British as you or I so why wouldn't they. They wanted to blame the leave vote on the uneducated white working class who are racist

No you or others on this thread - gosh it's got confusing

That's the problem with the word 'British' though I think.

Minority of people (racists & MC desperately trying to be PC & prove racism even where none exists):
British = white, English speaking.

The rest of us:
British = everyone who has made Britain their home.

yes I agree Mangoo

Being white and speaking English isn't enough for the racists round my way sadly. Celtic or Baltic looks are enough to get told to sod off to where you come from it is dying down a bit now here thankfully.

The few BME I know who voted leave spoke a lot about how they feel the immigration system is discriminatory when you have free movement with one lot and not with another. Tbf I think they had a point. Some now feel a bit duped, some felt there was enough other stuff pro brexit even if that didn't change. So even from my admittedly small sample it's just not that simple to assume every type of person voted one way or all people who voted one way are a certain type.

Mango ....

Need to get on with some work

and WTF is Grindr

I just know enough about that to know that I don't want to know

Though thinking that all BME's think alike and can't not possibly have any prejudice feelings themselves or a desire for the good old days like those pesky white working class racist voters and assuming they would support remain because they are BME prejudice in itself

Yes and that school of thought IS out there.