Just watched the Panorama programme on why people voted leave

[ssd]

and am livid

so many people who had zero fucking clue what will now happen to this country, so many wanting to have England back to how it was years ago, well guess what it wont fucking happen, time doesnt go backwards and the immigration wont get any better, it wont stop and it wont go away, all thats happened is this country will now be less competitive and the economy will tank, and when the economy tanks they have to get the money from somewhere and it'll come from the poor as the services they rely on will be cut, massively

and this was meant to be a protest vote!!

why dont so many leave voters actually realise what the are protesting about, lack of schools, housing, the nhs queues, has happened because the tory government have followed an austerity agenda we didnt even need and thats why there is a chronic shortage of housing/school places, as none of these services are being built and if you think voting leave and having a more right wing tory government in place will help these services out by christ you've got another thing coming

its fucking maddening

why dont so many leave voters actually realise what the are protesting about, lack of schools, housing, the nhs queues, has happened because the tory government have followed an austerity agenda we didnt even need and thats why there is a chronic shortage of housing/school places, as none of these services are being built and if you think voting leave and having a more right wing tory government in place will help these services out by christ you've got another thing coming

Sorry I just do not agree with you.

Sure, services are struggling with funding but the poverty we are seeing had a boost under the Blair government.

Its known people were worse off BEFORE the recession under Blair.

If your truly interested in cuts to services and problems for the poor, why dont you face it head on, why lie, and twist things to simply get in a dig at the Tories?

The truth is, the Labour government was a disaster for the country and they made it worse by allowing freedom to work and lifting work barriers.

So, we had more poverty under Blair, then we had the CC, then on top of all of that we had more poor coming here from EE.

That all makes me angry.

This idea that there's this vast metropolitan elite who only have contact with ordinary people through their Polish gardener and Estonian nanny and only set foot outside the M25 when they go on holiday to Rimini is being hugely over-played at the moment. I'm sure such people exist, but they are a tiny, tiny minority in this country. They certainly don't account for anything like 48% of the population.

Ah mother I'm SE so maybe not. But tbf the EU are notoriously lax on take aways so maybe they have a point

Define 'ordinary people' David.

I know many, many people who only mix, socialise, converse with other MC graduates.

One thing about the programme that struck me was the way the people seemed to think they were giving 2 fingers to the elite, by voting to leave. But Scotland voted mostly to stay in the EU and there arent many of the types in the above post with the Polish gardener etc etc living here, well not where I live anyway! I'm from a council estate and the people I've spoken to there know things will only get worse for them if we leave the EU. Its interesting the difference in thought between Scottish and English voters, with the same sort of background. Maybe its because up here we're used to being stuffed by the Tories and we know not to trust them, so believing the likes of Boris Johnston just wouldn't happen here. I've seen him referred to in the news as a charming likeable buffoon, up here in Scotland he's just seen as another posh dickhead who hasnt a clue how we live and would never speak for any of us, so why would we listen to him. Maybe thats why we weren't taken in by it all and voted to remain.

There were stupid reasons people voted to leave and stupid reasons people voted to stay.

And do these people all employ Polish nannies? Have they never ever set foot in a northern town?

That's the insinuation here. That if you have a degree and a job which pays a salary rather than an hourly rate then you must be part of some elite whooping it up at the expense of everyone else.

By the same token knowing isn't enough.

You have in a sense to appreciate what 'being' someone else is.

If you can get a Labour Govt in power when the UK is outside the EU then tax and spend budgets will become the new norm

Hence the reason a large proportion of the hard left voted Leave.

Have just watched it.

The thrust I took from it was:

The EU migrants are prepared to work for lower wages, therefore undercutting everyone else.

The sense of community that people have held dear across the working classes for generations has been systematically eroded.

Well, who knew?!

Ordinary people, with ordinary concerns about their ordinary lives.

But yes, they're all twats who Just Don't Get It.

It is striking to me that the only sense of cultural identity that is not considered 'worthy' enough is that of the working class communities across Britain.

The EU migrants are prepared to work for lower wages, therefore undercutting everyone else

If locals know that employers are paying below NMW then they need to report them. If they are not paying below NMW, then who is to blame? The migrants or the people who set the NWM?

The sense of community that people have held dear across the working classes for generations has been systematically eroded

Yes, we're now pitted against each other by the gov (Big Society, We're All in it Together, Benefit Fraud Hotline etc) which is encouraged by the media.

Gone are the days of the old when working folk pitched in and cooked meals for the unemployed coal miners in favour of telling the coal miners to get off their lazy backsides and get a job before we stick them on C5 and laugh at them.

You have in a sense to appreciate what 'being' someone else is.

So Nigel, Boris et al had this did they? OK Right

I know many, many people who only mix, socialise, converse with other MC graduates.

And you know all their life experiences - OK Right

And I know in that case many many working class people who only mix with working class - oh and go to bingo halls and working men's clubs (btw not many people do anymore but hey ho .....roll out the barrel lets put some more cliches in) but this has little relevance too

These statements do not investigate in any way the role of propaganda has played in this referendum - it puzzles me that neither of you have any interest in this what so ever....hhhhmmmmm

I didn't say Nigel did. I didn't even mention him in my post - if you're going to disagree with me, at least pick up on something I actually said

mango are you being deliberately thick? what do you mean no one knew? do you think this isn't happening here In Scotland? yet we mostly voted remain??

and finally...do you really think these communities will become what they were 30 odd year ago, with a more right wing gov in charge and us out of the EU?

do you think the gov, with no restrictions from the EU in place, will continue paying the min wage and giving workers rights?

what will happen to the communities when that happens?

I just dont get it, people think getting out the EU will turn the clock back to a time that frankly stopped existing years ago, when we all left the key in the door and shopped along the high street.

and you are the one calling people twats!

That and Newsight about the Tory and UKIP leadership contests.

I watched Newsnight and can confirm that it was depressing.

Scotland's population is not as vast as in England, which partly accounts for differing attitudes.

Plus getting out of the EU does not mean that we can stop immigration.

That little gem was a mistake remember?

So the people who voted Leave to get rid of the Polish workers are going to be left without EU grants and EU workers rights and if TM gets in there is a strong chance the human rights act could be scrapped along with them, however the Polish workers will still be ther, at least until the economy goes to shit and their jobs disappear anyway.

where I work and get paid min wage, if another worker came along who was willing to work for £4 an hour they'd snap them up and get rid of me right away, the only thing stopping them is the laws from the EU...which will change now and I'll prob be out a job..

so I voted remain, to keep these laws in place

so why would someone in my position ever vote to leave? and say its so they can get their country back?? I just dont get the English was of thinking, I really dont (and I know I'm massively generalizing here)

you don't all have to be "English" to have a sense of community though! Community is about people coming together to help each other, not about checking each other's passports.

I was struck by the people who were feeling politically engaged for the first time, and feeling that it was worth voting as their vote counted for something. I think that says more about the democratic deficit in our own country than anything about the EU.

It's not just money.

call the implication was there - and you like to imply.....a lot...but not to discuss...at all

Still didn't answer my question....did you?

mango are you being deliberately thick?

< < the only adequate response to that comment.

and you are the one calling people twats!

Again, works well here.
I didn't call anyone twats, I said:

But yes, they're all twats who Just Don't Get It.

In accordance with the rhetoric from the ivory tower dwellers who think the working classes just don't know what's good for them.

callherwillow, its more than that, we are used to being fucked over by Westminster and recognize that a within a few of the frankly daft and ludicrous laws to come out of the EU, there are a few gems that give us working classes protection against unscrupulous employers

I don't really know what the question was, Showme - if you could maybe repeat it as it wasn't clear who you were addressing some of your questions to.

I would politely refute I was implying any involvement by Farage though as I haven't mentioned him until you did.

mango, you realize the ivory towers classes are rubbing their hands with glee now? do you really honestly think life will get better for the working poor now?