"Nobody necessarily stays anywhere forever"

[DorothyL]

Says Teresa May

Words cannot describe the RAGE I feel at this fucking government. My children would really quite like me to stay!!!!!!!!!!

Just as a point of information, UK citizens who receive a state pension and live in Spain don't cost the Spanish health service anything, provided they have got their S1 form, which guarantees that the UK government will reimburse the Spanish state health service for their treatment.

All it means it that it's a shame that people haven't made more noise when (for instance) the UK spouses of non-EU citizens have seen their rights trampled on by stupid laws designed to bring immigration down to please those that care about numbers above decency.
It's always annoyed me when people serving my country think it has a duty to protect its citizens above others: no one stands to gain long-term from not trying hard to care. It depends on what kind of vision you have, whether you're happy as long as you're alright, or whether you try harder.

All it means it that it's a shame that people haven't made more noise when (for instance) the UK spouses of non-EU citizens have seen their rights trampled on by stupid laws designed to bring immigration down to please those that care about numbers above decency.
It's always annoyed me when people serving my country think it has a duty to protect its citizens above others: no one stands to gain long-term from not trying hard to care. It depends on what kind of vision you have, whether you're happy as long as you're alright, or whether you try harder.

(Ooops, sorry, app bug...)

And I think many pp aren't grasping a fundamental issue about sovereign countries, which is that their first duty is to act in the interests of their own citizens. Of course there are obligations (legal and human decency) that extend to how we treat non-citizens, but almost every country in the world accords rights and privileges to their citizens that do not extend to others.

Yes, this has crossed my mind too OlennasWimple. It's why I became a naturalised citizen here.

Well our countries are what we make them, we can't hide behind what others are like and what they have grown to become.
People have influence and preferences. You're just giving us yours.
I disagree that for citizens of a country to not share their privileges is set in stone. People must take responsibility for their opinions and not hide behind the way things are elsewhere or traditionally.

If that makes sense...

*"There's also the issue of not all countries accepting dual nationality, for some people accepting British citizenship means having to renounce their previous nationality"

Is this still happening?*

It would happen to me too if I applied for citizenship of the EU country I live in. It's the only reason why I haven't, as I qualify on several different grounds.

Nice that Germany and others are offering that option but what about those of us in EU states that don't allow dual nationality? There needs to be a fair solution for everybody.

Bold format not working again ...

Free movement of People Idea in itself is a huge mess and should never have been implemented in the first place. There could have been other concessions to have made it more fair esp as EU is not a level playing field by any stretch of the wildest imagination but they chose not too.

Even if we were to engage in a "race to the bottom" in terms of what countries do re citizenship, the UK is starting from a far more tolerant and accepting place than others: just the fact we allow dual citizenship illustrates this.

I don't see why politicians shouldn't argue hard for Brit Cits though: saying that it is important to secure the position of Brits living across the EU is both common sense, appropriate negotiating tactics and what a UK politician is duty bound to do.

Of course Olennas! I agree.
As for the benefits of freedom of movement, they were supposed to be economical apparently.
I'm not in the mood to look for hard facts about it, but I don't think it's usually held that the UK has lost out economically because of it?
But that's not the right thread for that.

rosierrosierrosier

There is a civil society organisation of the kind you were suggesting: neweuropeans.net/

I think there will be something in place where those EU citizens who have been living and working in the UK since before 23 June will be able to stay. Interesting to see what happens after.

I have a lot of sympathy for those who fear they will be separated or move. I have lived in separate countries from my DH because he is a non EU citizen. I am now living apart from my family and friends because it's the only way I can be with DH.

We are not in a situation where I am able to get a job paying £19k+ per annum for a minimum of 6 months before we pay 2-3k+ for a visa for DH.
One day we will be in a position to do this - my heart goes out to all those non EU spouses who may have to be separated from their families.

I hope that the main thing that comes from this is a fair immigration system which does not discriminate based on geography.

Having spent way too long reading articles and comments on all the newspaper websites I can, it seems to me that there are huge numbers of the population who won't accept any deal on migration. They think they've won with the prize being that everyone goes home. They are very, very angry at May for the opposite reason, because she's giving them the impression that there won't be mass deportations.

Don't read the Daily Mail comments. They're bloody terrifying.

I've read some of these Little Miss. Every leave voter I know is a DM reader who thinks all foreigners should be rounded up and shipped back to where they came from.

The U.K. Needs access to the single market and this will inevitably involve a deal on free movement. We will end up like Norway.

What the response of the rabidly anti-immigration will be is of massive concern.