"Nobody necessarily stays anywhere forever"

[DorothyL]

Says Teresa May

Words cannot describe the RAGE I feel at this fucking government. My children would really quite like me to stay!!!!!!!!!!

*Margrethe

It's less for children Elements. I realise no one wants to have to spend £1,212 on something they were effectively getting for free before, but the situation has changed, and if it makes you nervous I would pay the money and sort my personal situation out.

It's a lot of money: it's the price of a big telly, a round trip direct flight to Orlando, a fancy handbag, or one month's average mortgage payment in the UK. I would argue that citizenship in one of the world's most stable democracies (yes, even after the Brexit fiasco) is worth far more than any of these things.

I have lived on 4 continents and been in two countries while things went very, very wrong. All this hyperbole about fascism, is for me just that: hyperbole. When people are annoyed, they whinge; when people are worried, they act. They act with alacrity.

Mag we are acting and worrying. Applying for citizenship starts with applying for residency and waiting 12 months, during which time anything can apparently happen (according to May).
Also going from country to country is not the same as being settled somewhere with kids who don't even speak your mother tongue.

Margrethe Well said.

People would need to save around £25 a week for a year to pay for it. I know people that have been here for many years, settled, not wanting to return to their birth country, their children born here. My priority if I were them would have been to apply for British Citizenship ASAP, even before the vote. Just to make sure basically.

margarethe if you are saying that £1,200 will be easy to come by for most immigrants, then you are letting your privileges show.

Fawful What are you waiting for, I'd get on with it forthwith.

Misti let me say it again, it's not "cheap," but what you get for the money is priceless. People feel it is unaffordable because frankly it's not a priority. They would rather spend their money on other things. If the situation were really tight and really scary, UK citizenship would move right up the priority list and the money would be found.

What I am trying to say is: the £1,212 looks expensive because no one really thinks they are going to be "kicked out."

Mar I can see that perhaps your past experiences and circumstances led you to apply for citizenship.

What you have to understand is that for most of us had no reason and no time to plan for this. I have been an EU citizen all my life, with my home country having reciprocal relationships and rights pre dating the EU. We were given 10 weeks notice of a referendum all the while being assured by both sides that nothing about our status would change whatever the outcome.

So forgive me if I whinge and worry. I don't have £1,212 right now to spend on handbags or applying for citizenship.

They would rather spend their money on other things.

Yes, like food.

Why not avail themselves of the UK's extensive network of food banks and apply to live in a country full of fascists who want them deported at the earliest possible opportunity?

Great. So Teresa May is cruel and a clueless politician. This Tory leadership battle isn't looking hopeful.

And it's pointless because everyone's opinion is against her. She's causing serious upset for nothing.

I'm ok Margrethe, I became a British citizen a long time ago (and yes it was £££ and a ball ache).

But if somebody woke me up on Friday morning and told me I had to pay £1212, I'd be somewhat discombobulated.

If somebody told me I had to pay £1212 for British citizenship that

• I didn't need before
• I might not actually need at all, depending on a multi-year process of unpredictable negotiations
• I may not qualify for due to residency requirements
• I may have to give up my existing nationality for (and lose the right to live in the rest of the EU?)
• I might not really want because there's now a rather unwelcoming odour in the air and there's nobody in charge and we can't seem to find out collective backsides with our own hands anymore and even the people who might be in charge are making alternately nice and then nasty noises, and perhaps it's better to just cut my losses and go...

I might be more than a little discombobulated.

Brilliant summary TheELementSong

The obvious thing to do is to apply for citizenship, if you are truly worried, rather than just irritated with the whole sorry thing.

As long as you think it's OK to make UK nationals living in the rest of the EU apply and pay for citizenship, or pack up and piss off out of Spain back to the UK.

In the wake of Teresa May’s airy pronouncement, it is easy to imagine a rather frosty pall hanging over the dinner table at the home of the Farages, given that Mrs Farage is a German national …

The distinction between the players and the pawns is not always clear.

The obvious thing to do is to apply for citizenship, if you are truly worried, rather than just irritated with the whole sorry thing.

As long as you think it's OK to make UK nationals living in the rest of the EU apply and pay for citizenship, or pack up and piss off out of Spain back to the UK.

Some EU countries don't allow dual citizenship so it will also be forcing some people to renounce their British citizenship.

Ah, but you are now linking the fates of UK nationals in the EU with those of EU nationals in the UK Saphire. This reciprocity seems to be exactly what this thread is railing against. Many posters on this thread seem to be demanding a one way guarantee.

Marg, I don't think ANYONE should be talking about 'the fates' of EU nationals ANYWHERE.

This was not addressed by either campaign, but notably not by Leave, during campaigning; like so many of the actual details, it was brushed under the carpet and often dismissed as 'scaremongering'.

This country, where I've lived all my life and which, God help me, I love from my bones, is making me cry and feel sick all the time at the moment. What have we done?

Living somewhere without having citizenship of that country is like renting rather than buying a property: there are pros and cons, and generally it all works out fine. But you don't have full security of your position, and you should understand that the situation may change with relatively little warning. If that really bothers you, either take steps to prepare for the worst or change your position. (I say that as an immigrant with my status here legally tied to my husband's job, where his employment is "at will" and he could technically be fired with no notice at all, as well as having numerous EU friends and family members)

It is disingenuous to claim you only had ten weeks notice of a referendum to prepare: this has been discussed for years and years, and was part of the Tory manifesto in 2015...

I think it would really help us all if we kept calm and steered away from the hysteria, the hyperbole and the rhetoric.

Remain's reaction after the vote has me alarmed. There seems to be a concerted effort to big up every possible problem, stoke every possible fear. I assume this is because people are cross that they didn't get their way, but also, if they can create enough doubt and fear then perhaps the referendum can be some how nullified.

I think this is scary direction. I really don't want democracy overturned in the UK. For me that's more important than our relationship with the EU. I have citizenship in one country. This country. I need it to work.

By the way I voted remain because I am risk averse. I have also lost a job offer because of Brexit this week. If I could pay £1212 to get it back I would. If I could pay £1212 to have citizenship in the EU as well to keep my options open I would. Some of the people asking for sympathy on this thread are objectively in a better position than most UK citizens. They can easily end up with dual citizenship in both the UK and an EU country. It's a bit rich for them to mean to those of us stuck here in this small island.

And since this is my situation, I do want someone to negotiate hard for my interests to get me the best possible deal.

It's annoying when something up ends your apple cart so to speak, and people are entitled to a little moan. Blythly calling mainstream politicians facsists is going too far imho.

My MIL voted leave because she was worried about immigration. When I mentioned that I was from an EU country so technically an immigrant she dismissed the idea and said 'oh no I don't mean you dear, you're different you have every right to be here'.

Well said Margrethe

I'm not eligible for citizenship in the country I live in. I'm not hysterical. I'm genuinely frightened about my future.

Threatening to deport people en masse for having the wrong nationality is facist.

Words having meanings.

If "mainstream" politicians don't want to be called facists, then they shouldn't take facist positions.

Buy you really have to laugh at the idea that mainstream politicians couldn't be facists

Um OK.

May is weak on Brexit because she was in the Remain camp. So she is trying to bolster her credentials with the right wing of the Tory party by being tough on the foreigners who live amongst us.

She is quite literally playing the Trump card here.

And people are defending it.

Fucking hell, England. I didn't think your ugly racist feelings were quite so closevto the surface.

LittleMiss - are you eligible for Indefinite Leave to Remain? That's the first step for many towards citizenship, and gives you the right to reside in the UK