"Nobody necessarily stays anywhere forever"

[DorothyL]

Says Teresa May

Words cannot describe the RAGE I feel at this fucking government. My children would really quite like me to stay!!!!!!!!!!

"Citizenship is a privilege, not a right"

www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2013/11/14/theresa-may-overruled-security-services-in-citizenship-stripping-case/

Now, that is in the context of terrorism.. but it is not the first time I've heard "citizenship is a privilege, not a right" - I believe it was said in relation to the tougher naturalization rules last year too

a trend emerging.. worrying..

Only where there is a believed threat to national security, Adulting

Only where there is a believed threat to national security, Adulting

No, as I said, "citizenship is a privilidge, not a right" has been said in other non terrorism related contexts lately.

I hope you are right Doin it would be awful if this were to stir things up again.

The obvious thing to do is to apply for citizenship, if you are truly worried, rather than just irritated with the whole sorry thing.

FFS!

My BRITISH husband, who has never lived anywhere but Britain, and who financially supports himself and his family WOULD NOT QUALIFY TO NATURALIZE AS A BRITISH CITIZEN WERE HE NOT ALREADY A CITIZEN BY BIRTH

He would fall at the first hurdle (PR) due to being self employed.

Makes me so angry that people who have no understanding of the process are sharing their wisdom that people should just get citizenship - cause its so easy! FFS ARGH!

X-post

"Citizenship is a privilege not a right" is shorthand for "if you are a foreigner, you are lucky to become a Brit but we can take that away from you if you seriously threaten us"

It means, we can and do move the goal posts.

Just because the goal posts have thus far only been moved for justified reasons, doesn't mean that the precident can't be abused

The EU citizenship that is being stripped from people across the UK, was for many of them a right they had by birth.

You can call it a privilege if you want, but it was an automatic entitlement from birth.

It seems very wrong that such an entitlement can be removed from all UK citizens by a popular vote.

Why should anyone else get to vote to restrict the citizenship rights of their fellow citizens?

Clearly these are rights people value. And with good reason. Their future options have been limited againstbtheir will.

Since when do we allow plebiscites to limit the future options of people who can't even vote yet?

It's a bizarre injustice that has been visited upon us by this performance of democracy that ignore the legal democratic rights of so many and imposes on them things they never wanted.

Not just political parties and their policies that they can vote against in 5 years time.

But a permanent change to their legal status in the world.

Exactly! And it is doubly not a democratic process for the people who were not allowed to vote!

Not really a u-turn but a reframing.

Theresa May in U-turn over EU citizens in UK
Home secretary says that she can now guarantee their right to remain

next.ft.com/content/a978bc7e-42c8-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d

'Theresa May, the Tory leadership frontrunner, has reversed her stance towards EU citizens living in Britain, after her rivals accused her of treating them as “bargaining chips” in exit negotiations. In the first mis-step of her campaign to become prime minister, Mrs May found herself under attack for failing to guarantee the rights of EU nationals to stay in Britain, saying they would be “part of the negotiation” on Brexit.

Amid growing criticism, Mrs May’s team said: “Her position is that we will guarantee the legal status of EU nationals in Britain as long as British nationals living in EU countries have their status guaranteed too.”

Labour urges Commons vote over EU citizens' right to stay in UK
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/theresa-may-clarify-stance-eu-citizens-right-to-remain-uk-brexit

"Labour is to force a Commons vote on Wednesday to rule out the use of 3 million European Union citizens living in Britain “as bargaining chips” in the Brexit negotiations and allow them the right to remain in the UK.

The decision by the shadow cabinet to use its Commons opposition day debate adds to the growing pressure on Theresa May to drop her hardline stance of using the future legal status of EU citizens in Britain as part of the negotiations."

On a slightly lighter note, I briefed dh who was stuck in meeting all day on the latest sorry developments over supper. When I read out the FT article about what TM had saidI actually began to cry because of how shit it feels thinking that millions of families face uncertainty and possible separation or uprooting.

Afterwards I asked dd who is 7 if she knows what we were talking about to make sure she didn't feel upset or worried but the whole conversation had slightly gone above your head.

She understood "Nobody necessarily stays anywhere forever" as

"Nobody necessarily stays in one country forever."

*above hear head

Can it be legal for people's citizenship rights to be reduced, even by a majority vote?

I've been wondering this. It occurred to me many of those who voted out will have dual citizenship that still allows them the right to free movement and other citizen benefits of being in the EU. Yet more will have the right to apply for dual citizenship, having an Irish grandparent or a parent or grandparent from an EU country.

It thus seems entirely ludicrous that they should have the right to vote to effectively strip the benefits of EU citizenship from those who wish to retain them.

Extremely unjust.

The same point applies to MPs voting out and backing leave. How many still have the right of EU citizens? I want to know.

Legal but unfair would be my guess

The obvious thing to do is to apply for citizenship, if you are truly worried, rather than just irritated with the whole sorry thing.

I can't have dual citizenship. I don't want to give up citizenship of my home country. Had I known that my status here could change one day, I'd have thought very long and hard to settle here with my British DH, 21 years ago, or to bring up my children here. I did it under the understanding that I have a right to live here, as an EU citizen. It''s like signing a contract, and someone else comes along and tears it up, just like that, and that's ok .

Of course we should be allowed to stay, and have the same rights as before. It is unbelievable that TM suggests otherwise.

It''s like signing a contract, and someone else comes along and tears it up, just like that, and that's ok

YY bestcat exactly - people have been building their lives here, following the rules in good faith and suddenly it's all swept away. And then someone comes along and superciliously declares that you should have foreseen this and should have done X, Y and Z things that were not necessary before.

I'm hoping that the EU will protect the rights of British expats because I don't trust the UK government to do it. I think the government will throw us to the wolves if it gains them an advantage elsewhere.

I'm hoping that the EU will be pragmatic and see that not protecting us undermines the concept of freedom of movement which they believe in. Who else would want to uproot their families and relocate within the EU if everything they build for themselves can be snatched away at a later date?

I'm hoping that the EU will protect the rights of British expats because I don't trust the UK government to do it.

Unfortunately, these things are generally reciprocal. If GB tightens up, Brits abroad will have their rights tightened back

It angers me so much when people say "if you had been really committed to living in the UK you would have taken citizenship"

• no I didn't because the rules meant there was absolutely no need.

Yet I have worked here, my dh is British, as are my children, I own a house, I have been a school governor. Not committed enough to life here ey?

"Who else would want to uproot their families and relocate within the EU if everything they build for themselves can be snatched away at a later date?"

Quite.

"if you had been really committed to living in the UK you would have taken citizenship"

This is as ignorant as many of the Brexit 'arguments'. The beauty and strength of the EU was that it was a flexible arrangement, not rigid you could be part of one, two or more countries have connection and the ability to participate as an equal, do business, travel educate yourself and get to know your neighbours. What dimwits would throw something so progressive and powerful away

And the most bewildering thing is that the baby boomers, the one generation that has lived in a pretty safe and prosperous society have soiled it for their dc and dgc. Sheer callousness.

But, for the sake of argument, Brexiteers would say that the "contract" changed when the EU became something very different (and much bigger) than the institution the UK initially signed up to. And there are a number of countries that don't let people stay long term unless they become a citizen, even if (or even especially because) that means renouncing original citizenship. The UK is pretty generous in that regard, which is now possibly turning out to be a poisoned chalice.

I agree with everything you have said here, DoinItFine, and well said.

Even Donald Trump wouldn't dare suggest that either Mexicans or Muslims who moved to the US legally should be have their rights stripped from them and be deported.

May's position on this was to the right of Trump's.

If you thought it was a good or acceptable idea, have a think about that.

Luckily enough of your fellow citizens were appalled that she's been forced to roll back on it. Slightly.

Not very fair on people already here but I guess she is also looking out for the millions of brits abroad.