Have Boris and Jeremy been stabbed in the back? Please can we have some leaders?

[RedToothBrush]

And another thread about antics of President Boris and Comrade Jeremy and all their friends.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

Can we laugh or cry yet?

Are you still sane?

Will this insanity ever end?

Anyway I just want to point out that the British aren't at all racist. If someone is down, the knives, having already been sharpened, come out, and the plotters and their wives will plot to the death regardless of class or race. I see that very clearly now. Extremely interesting lesson.

BBC news (sorry to anyone watching in parallel)
One MP on saying what did it for Johnson was his column, felt by a lot of people he'd made promises to, to be a complete backtrack. She said ashen faces on Monday.

Vine - yes, people already rehashing columns where she said she preferred TV to sex with husband so what a lovely irony if despite their media backers, it's the headlines from past columns that cause the general electorate remembers and decides to vote against him

Labour - facepalm. Absolutely clear that party members livid, hence Eagle not landing... Can't believe they embarked on the backstabbing knowing the situation with the members. Surely only way forward is that members keep the leader they want and those MPs and Alistair Campbell who can't live with him split into a more central "party" and try to build the support from ground up.
As all Tory standing are saying no snap election (I think) then they've a few years to do this. Obv reckless and a nightmare scenario for them, but I think they've set this in motion themselves, what else can the rogue MPs do?

people already rehashing columns where she said she preferred TV to sex with husband

need brain bleach now

I don't think this has anything to do with Chilcott.

They want him gone because he supports Brexit and they don't.

He wanted to invoke article 50 on Monday.

He can't lead a party through this crisis when that party's MPs and their voters don't support his aims.

His support is going to turn savage if he has to backtrack.

I think this is a point.

I also think he didn't have much choice either. I know that there was a lot of pressure on him because of the lack of an opposition leader and the fact the LD have always been heavily pro-EU.

I think that the way its all been worded in the press is somewhat misleading too. He initially said about 'getting back into Europe' rather than opposing the result.

Britain has now voted to leave. The margin of victory was small and risks dividing our country. We must respect the outcome of the referendum in how we talk about moving forward.

That is why I want to make clear that the Liberal Democrats will fight the next election on a clear and unequivocal promise to restore Britain’s prosperity and role in the world, with the United Kingdom in the European Union, not outside it.

So I don't think the LD position, is crystal clear, when perhaps it should be.

I also think the weekend mudded the waters as he said this BEFORE the talk of not activating a50 and people started to clutch at those straws.

At this point, talk of 'fighting' I think has been wildly open to misinterpretation. (Which perhaps Farron has not corrected, and should have done).

Either way, either not activating a50 or getting back into Europe is going to be a very dangerous and hard path. It will inflame the UKIP fires. When you have Arron Banks saying what he has about 'mischief' that's a worry. It could pitch the LD on a direct collision course with them. This has already been done, some of the Leave.Eu stuff deliberately used images as Clegg as almost 'the enemy' and I've seen posts stating there had been a 'declaration of war' against Liberal types on MN.

I don't think that Tim Farron would be able to walk onto the battlefield unopposed, as everyone is forgetting about the fourth party in the UK, who have been quite influential of late in case anyone had missed it.

Chilcott may be a factor, but also could be as simple as they never wanted him in the first place and were never expecting to get him in the first place.

They are just using Brexit as a flimsy excuse to get rid.

Oooof.

he supports Brexit and they don't

That's basically why I want him out too. I blame him. If he didn't feel able to throw his full enthusiastic support behind the party position on Brexit, he should have resigned. This was too important.

But anyway, it doesn't really matter who's right and who's wrong, the fact of the matter is that they can't be an effective opposition when the leader is not trusted by the MPs. A leader can be replaced, but the MPs can't be.

Why can't they find a compromise candidate? Someone who agrees with most of Corbyn's positions (not on Brexit), but also a bit more media-savvy and charismatic? It sounds easy!

Wow. And Boris had convinced everyone that the dumb blonde act was just an act!!

I don't get what the Blairites' Chilcot strategy is

I think the idea of an October GE (that now will not happen but was strongly felt as a realistic possibility a few days ago) might also have been at play when trying to get rid of Corbyn. Of course, the public won't see this part of the picture - Chilcot is more visible so is assumed is the only reason for the attempt to oust him.

With the threat of a GE going there is less pressure for leadership contest. Of course its a bit late now the damage is done.

What shall we call our new party? Surely we have a better chance than the muppets out there calling themselves politicians.

A leader can be replaced, but the MPs can't be.

The worryimg thing to me is how little respect his supporters seem to have for Labour voters who are not party members.

I wonder what Leavers who said they didn't trust Cameron and Osbourne have made of today?!

And Boris had convinced everyone that the dumb blonde act was just an act!!

😂😂😂

Doin - I don't suppose they even think about them, it appears that you only count if you are part of the whole Momentum thing. Which is a bit cult-y.

And Boris had convinced everyone that the dumb blonde act was just an act!!

After 24 June I found it to be very convincing.

Anna Soubry apologies to the country before saying "We've had enough of these boys messing about"

She's come out for Team May.

The thing is we (and they) have no idea what voters for the Labur party want.
They voted for the MPs because they probably presented something better/closer to what they want than the Conservatives but nothing is saying that actually following JC lead would or wouldn't be their cup of tea.
What we know is that the members want JC.

So the issue may well be that what voters want is JC, not the alternative than the MPs are proposing!

And that's wo going into the Brexit stuff that was nowhere on cards when they were elected.

I have no idea of the Laboour works, but surely if JC is elected by the members then it's up to the MPPs to go behind him rather than the leader to follow the MPs. Isn't that what you spect from a LEADER??

BBC:
All through the morning Boris Johnson had been haemorraging support. A friend of his told me: "Gove has completely knifed him."

We have been told that Lynton Crosby - Johnson's campaign chief - didn't think he had enough heavyweight names to get the show on the road.

Michael Gove's announcement caught a lot of people by surprise. In the minutes afterwards, one of our producers rang a minister and was greeted with expletives followed by the joke, "I'm backing Angela Eagle."

There is bafflement and bitterness among Boris Johnson's friends. One told me that the Brexit vote would now be split as Boris Johnson would not back Michael Gove, would keep his powder dry but in the end was likely to support Andrea Leadsom.

Ms Leadsom herself said today: "Boris would have been a great choice for people and I think it's really important people do have that choice... I am really shocked and disappointed actually."

One friend of Boris Johnson told me that Michael Gove had promised to be chairman of the his campaign. On Sunday he'd produced a list of names of support but then did a volte-face this morning.

This source suggested that there had been a row over who would run the Johnson campaign - Dominic Cummings, who is close to Gove and was a leading light in the Leave campaign, was spurned in favour of Lynton Crosby, the strategist and pollster.

Over on the Gove team, a friend of his said that he "had been at the 99th metre with the closing line approaching" when he decided that Boris Johnson just wasn't credible, he'd promised a hundred jobs to three hundred people.

Others in favour of Brexit were troubled by Boris Johnson's article on Monday in which he said that immigration wasn't an important factor in the Leave vote and feared he could backtrack in negotiations.

And the email from Michael Gove's wife, Sarah Vine, suggests that they were having trouble pinning Boris Johnson down over what role he would play in a future government.

Michael Gove's friends are also suggesting that he has the backing of the Chancellor George Osborne.

oooo the plot thickens.

With Chilcott, there are some talks about taking Blair to the Tribunal for his role over the war.
I can't see the Blairites being happy with that.
Not when they are the same MPs who have voted for the war and be generally heavy handed in the ME.
Or have also abstained when the governemnt put the Welfare bill through.
And JC has been the one to have an opposite position on all of that and made it clear.

They are even more divided internally than the Conservatives are.

The bottom line, maybe it's time to realise that 2 parties to reflect all the tendencies and difference of opinions just isn't enough and working.

It's extremely hard to get rid of a Labour party leader - always has been. Jezza believes he has the will of the members behind him on top of that

Some people say he actually wants to leave but feels he will be letting these members down. Which is rubbish he's letting us all down by staying. I don't think it's anything to do with Chilcott. Jezza is unpopular with MP's for various reasons and they are taking their opportunity (compounded by his lacklustre referendum campaign)

Why the freak he won't go and pave the way for my Keir mer I don't know

What we know is that the members want JC.

But we also know that the Labour electorate want the MPs they elected. The MPs also have a democratic mandate, a much bigger one than JC. They represent millions of voters.

But again, the way I see it, it's not even about who is more legitimate. It's about the practical ways to get out of this mess. Clearly the MPs will never accept Corbyn, the bridges have been burned. So how exactly does he expect to lead the party? He can't! That's just the blunt reality.

If this wasn't a weird personal Corbyn cult, his wing of the party could try and put forward a compromise candidate. But they're not doing that, it's either Corbyn or they'll take the party down with them.

Chala Exactly - How could he destroy the party he professes to love. If it happens we won't remember the MP's. His name will be going down in the history books

He is just another Scargill

'There is bafflement and bitterness among Boris Johnson's friends. One told me that the Brexit vote would now be split as Boris Johnson would not back Michael Gove'

Good!

Honestly, people bang on all the time about how bitchy women are to each other. Can you imagine the headlines if Johnson and Gove were women?