When do you think it will feel better?

[FlopIsMyHero]

I know lots of you will want to say: "get over yourselves already", but please be kind (or say nothing!).

But for those of you for whom this is genuinely devastating, emotionally, morally, practically (if you or partner is non-British), or job-wise - when do you think it will start to feel better?

I'm waking every morning feeling as if, yes, the sky has fallen if, or as if I've experienced a personal bereavement.

It doesn't matter whether I sing "Brexit is the best thing ever lalalala" and dance around Parliament with an "I am confident!!" banner -the fact remains that without the single market/city passport - London finance companies cannot trade with the EU. So London Finance will move into EU countries - taking the jobs, the tax revenues, the economy and my family with it.

No amount of 'talking' the economy 'up' is going to change that.

That's why we're all so fucking worried.

I just can't pick myself up from this. I'm usually pretty buoyant and can be cheerful again after shit things happen quite quickly, but I just feel so depressed about this. There are a lot of particular things that worry me - my job will change a lot, many of my friends are facing uncertain futures, more than one friend has experienced racial abuse having never experienced it before. But mostly I just feel stripped of my identity. I am European and my children are European - but we aren't entitled to anything other than UK passports. I will be happy if we do end up in the EEA and mostly things continue as before, but this will still mean that we are not EU citizens and for me this is very painful.

My fear for the UK after Brexit is that it could start to look like the US, with biased media everywhere, people with several jobs still not able to afford rent, and no free healthcare.

Because clearly, people are v open to media manipulation, that's what I'm taking home from the vote.

I'm still angry and very nervous. Still leavers insist things are going to be fine when all evidence is to the contrary. Theresa May was responsible for the 'go home' vans and hasn't ruled out sending existing migrants home which worries me a lot (I'm not a migrant). I wanted her to be PM over Johnson but now he's out of the running I don't know. We are left with 3 horrendously inept individuals. With labour still in crisis. It's a fucking mess.

I had to use my passport yesterday to register for something and I saw the "European Union" printed on the cover and felt sad about it.

I think it's the lack of being able to relax for sure. I am finding little pockets of where I can go to find it but it's so easy to get sucked back in.

I found a James Herriot book at work the other night and read that for a while, that was lovely. All sheep and no running water and drunk farmers. No politics in sight :)

I'd hazard a guess that it will start to feel better around 2020 or so...when the big issues have been sorted (or at least are being dealt with and are nearing completion). At the moment there is too much uncertainty - Will Scotland have a second referendum on remaining in the UK, who will lead the Conservative party, who will lead the Labour party etc. etc. etc..

To my fellow insomniacs on this thread, didn't do so well last night - woke at 1:30am - not good - in tears in the bathroom being hugged by my lovely uni student daughter. What I couldn't get out of my head at 1am was the anti-intellectualism of it all - I find gove's 'don't trust the experts' message frightening and disturbing, because of its shades of fascism, and the way it has been picked up - eg 'get used to it', 'let's stick it to those liberal elites', it's 'democracy' etc etc is the same. There is little evidence of thoughtfulness, and much closing down of debate.

Gove has a track record of this from his time in education - name calling, labelling, galvanising the media, othering, throwing all the cards in the air without a plan etc - but this is more serious, obviously. I have suspected for some time that he has a personality disorder - narcissism, self glorification etc.

I woke up again at around 3 - thought I heard screaming and running, in my house - it wasn't real. I am an insomniac when stressful things happen - but this level of nocturnal anxiety is not something I have felt before.

Enjoyed hearing ken Clarke on the radio this morning. Found him reassuringly intelligent and confident sounding. If only he could be pm - even though I don't actually agree with him on most things, except Europe. I'd probably take anyone competent who actually seemed to accept the reality of the challenge ahead.

I heard Ken Clarke yesterday- I didn't know who it was at first but I was agreeing and agreeing- he articulates it well.

It'll feel better when we are out of limbo and have an idea what the majority wish is to replace full away membership.

As things stand, there is no plan going forwards so no way of knowing what we'll be aiming for in negotiations and what compromises we are willing to make to achieve our aims.

The U.K., EU, and the world will benefit from this uncertainty ending and then we can start the process of finding our new equalibrium.

It'll feel better when we are out of limbo and have an idea what the majority wish

**

As things stand, there is no plan going forwards so no way of knowing what we'll be aiming for in negotiations and what compromises we are willing to make to achieve our aims.

**

The U.K., EU, and the world will benefit from this uncertainty ending and then we can start the process of finding our new equalibrium.

You didn't think it would have been useful to think about any of this before you voted to Leave?

That's it figment, I'm worried too about how easy it has been for politicians and the media to manipulate people. Complete lies were written on official campaign websites. It this was a GE & the elected MPs did something similar, you'd think the Queen might get involved, or AIB overdramatic?

Sorry OP, that was off-thread.
To answer the question I'm now fearful that people can be railroad into anything by sound bites, and I don't know how long it will last, but more than ever we need to resist being shouted down & make positive cases for things we believe in. That will be my way of taking back control.

Fawful I don't know about the queen - I suspect it doesn't really work in that way anymore!! But it's a measure of the seriousness of the situation that you are even posting that question.

I'm worried too about this march tomorrow. There is almost bound to be violence in the current climate. I support the idea of marching but I certainly hope they have competent organisers and plenty of policing.

We don't want it to be our cable street.

I'm not saying she should be involved, of course. I'm just wondering in theory if there is anything at all that can stop anyone being elected on virtually empty promises and then discard them all. I don't think 'yawn!' is a v good answer to that.

(The 'yawn!' comment didn't relate to your post but Springing's somewhere.)

It won't get better in a sense but a sense of normality will return once a new PM has been elected.

I absolutely cannot see a new 'Great' Britain with an empowered working class taking 'back control'. Instead some working class and middle class segments will a feel renewed sense of enthusiastic 'Britishness' and validation. meanwhile the gap between the working classes and the economic elite will widen so much that a our celebration of Britishness will be completed with a return a Neo Victorian era marked by stark inequalities with PC as King of this country. I imagine he is a 'leaver' too. Interesting times.

You didn't think it would have been useful to think about any of this before you voted to Leave?

Of yes, I know what I want ideally and it's up to me to do my bit to communicate that and my reasoning behind it to try to persuade others

As for your wish for a plan, it may help your understanding if I reverse the scenario by asking you the same question

What were the remain voters plans for remaining within the EU?

Even those voting remain aren't happy with the EU in its current form, let alone happy to be pushed further into yet more agreements we don't want. That's why Cameron tried to negotiate change prior to the referendum!

Our own pro EU prime minister failed to get the changes he wanted because we have little say on what happens to us in the EU

What was the plan for remain voters to ensure we got the reform the majority want and would not have to agree to more changes we don't want in future?

I think it will feel better when we have made the decision not to invoke article 50. only 37% of the population voted leave anyway.

What were the remain voters plans for remaining within the EU?

Let's see, we could start with, oh this is difficult... Remaining in the EU?

Oh Joysmum, good to hear you are doing your bit to persuade people.

Please can you explain to me - a working poor single parent with a primary school aged child - who is very worried about the outcome what the benefits of the leave vote are, in the short and long term?

Let's see, we could start with, oh this is difficult... Remaining in the EU?

Ok, the same as the plan for leaving was just to leave.

Can you not see the referendum was only a yes no vote. Whether you are leave or remain, there was no plan for the future.

Remain wasn't just a vote to accept the EU as it is now despite no remain voters I know being happy with it in its current form, it was also acceptance in the EU aim to continue to push towards even greater integration!

If remain had a plan to stop that (which has already proved impossible and has been what led to the referendum in the first place) then perhaps more leavers would have been persuaded.

There wasn't a plan by either side because it was a yes/no vote and what came next was always going to be dependent on the vote and peoples motivations behind their vote.

Leavers were lied to and Boris fucked us up then fucked off

flippinada do a search on my username to find my position and reasoning on other threads

Can we please have a ban on imbecilic 'smiley faces' in this thread, or is it just me?

(Wonder what Orwell would have made of smiley faces - bizarre thought of the morning).