Democracy 'Intelligent' people vs 'stupid' people

[TinnTinn]

Some people are too stupid to be allowed to vote. I've been hearing a lot of this since the referendum.

Should this come into democracy? Or is it possible that different socio economic, political and regional groups within a country have very different experiences, wants, needs, hopes and aspirations. Chances are these will differ from other groups of people. Does this somehow invalidate their views?

But again - it's an easy soundbite "£350 million extra per week". But it breaks down when analysed. But analysis is so boring for some.

Most people don't know what the EU is, why it was set up and how it functions. It should be taught in school, along with international finance and economics. We have had 20 years of diatribe about curly bananas from Murdoch and the Daily Mail which is mainly untrue and generally irrelevant and decades of belly aching from the Tories. This has produced a toxic environment which allowed us to be manipulated and lied to by people who were too self interested to care about risking our country. The facts are extremely complex, the EU affects so many areas of our life it is hard to assess the effects of leaving or staying but the case has not been properly made.

It is our responsibility to understand what we are voting for; or we'll get nasty surprises, our politicians have a responsibility to present us with the facts, and to ensure they don't tie us up in constitutional knots, they have been caught with their pants down, our newspapers should have more varied ownership so we get a range of different views.

I think votes can make responsible decisions if they are properly informed...

Everyone should be allowed to vote, of course. It is entirely up to the the government to ensure that the school curriculum covers, at sufficient depth, and at the various key stages the way the country's politics work. Our school does this very well but I imagine not all schools have the same approach.

I also believe that mainstream media and politicians ought be held accountable for publicising misinformation and lies.

Our politicians have fucked up this country, misled us and taken us up shit creek. Right wing media effing Daily Fail The Sun, Express and so on are all culprits in this sorry affair.

I am a guest here,but keenly interested.The single thing that counted was xenophobia.Nothing makes people more unquiet than when they perceive that they are being swamped as times get hard.

I have seen people burned alive by neighbours who they counted as friends the day before.

Xenophobia is NOT racism.It is shouted down and so the pressure builds.
Still you get the denial.

Funnily enough many of the stories about square strawberries and EU armies were started in the 80s and 90s by none other than the Telegraph's EU correspondent.

I think people will generally vote based on their own circumstances and that society is very geared towards 'me'. Perhaps people start out with a view of how they are going to vote and then maybe look to validate this. When they find information that supports them, it validates their view. When the opposite argument just seems to be full of negativity and 'fear' this also confirms that there aren't any positives and they are again right.

The political elite have form for ignoring the will of the people and it is going to be interesting to see how this all plays out:

Let's try that again, hopefully you'll get it right this time!!

seemslikeonlyyesterday

You've hit the nail on the head. Humans are bad at looking at all the data and coming to sensible decision. We tend to make a decision first and try to support it unless something blindingly undeniable comes along.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07ffxsw

It has changed and reformed as the nation states have seen fit.

Not really. It has stuck to the plans and ideology it has always had, selecting officials who agree with it and giving them the main power base, and implementing those plans gradually regardless of what nation states think.

It is entirely up to the government to ensure that the school curriculum covers....

Hmm. Am I the only one who can see a flaw in this?

I think we need to accept that people aren't computers, and data analysis and the most "logical" result in mathematical terms may not be what we actually want or need. We have both head and heart.

It is entirely up to the government to ensure that the school curriculum covers....

Not only is that a problem, but you also have to ensure that there is no political bias by the teachers who are already a pretty leftie lot to start with. One of my son's teachers is an ex Labour councillor and prospective Labour MP - I really wouldn't want him teaching my son anything about politics as he's hardly likely to give a balanced view!

IMO, this snobbery about intelligence is just as bad as racism, which the Remain group accuse the Leavers of. Why is wrong to say people are inferior because of the colour of their skin, but it's OK to say they are inferior because they are less intelligent? Some people are born with a fortunate combination of genes for higher intelligence and/or supportive families and/or good schools. Others are not so lucky, maybe born with less intelligence, into deprivation, go to sink schools, etc. I think a bit more modesty and gratitude for what they were blessed with might be more appropriate from those denigrating those they see as "stupid"; and a recognition that people vote from their own perspective and priorities!

I really wouldn't want him teaching my son anything about politics as he's hardly likely to give a balanced view!

Teaching about how the political system works is not the same as teaching politics.

Um the intelligence point? When people openly admit to not having done their research or to have voted on national policy decisions, or to stick it to the man, in an election which was about leaving or staying the EU and each vote counted.

I think it perfectly acceptable to question the intelligence because they have clearly misunderstood the nature and importance of the referendum and the issue at stake. Despite it being in every media source for months and months.

I really wouldn't want him teaching my son anything about politics as he's hardly likely to give a balanced view!

Really? What I'm talking about is not 'teaching' the pros and cons about a certain decision like the referendum but imparting rock solid knowledge of how our state works, what a referendum does and doesn't do, how GE work , all the ins and outs of democracy, the importance to seek out balanced information, being responsible and participating citizens and so on. So many people are surprised that the referendum wasn't binding. This is not because of lack of intelligence but because they haven't been educated sufficiently on the workings of democracy in our country. People are used to voting on BB and BGT maybe some think that's how it works in real life.

"it has stuck to the plans and ideology it has always had, selecting officials who agree with it"

But the commisioners are selected by the member states?

The negotiations on treaties and proposals are done by civil servants seconded to Brussles by the member states.

The Council are ministers of the member states from national governments.

The MEPs are elected.

Whatever, you stick to your dogmatic points however counter factual they are.

The whole point of democracy is everyone gets a say. Why should someone who is intelligent's views be any more important than somebody who isn't as intelligent?

We teach history with a nationalistic bias.
We say that media studies is valueless.
Politics is only an optional subject from GCSE.
We teach maths not proper every day finance. As obviously trigonometry is more useful.
We have a poor attitude to teaching foreign languages as we 'don't need them'.

I could carry on....

RedToothBrush

You missed out the recommended books in English Literature.

Designed to build a sense of pride in the UK?

I don't blame anyone in the face of that.
It doesn't matter if you are clever or stupid.

The system is set up in a particular way that does not favour critical thought and good skills for life.

Who is responsible for that?

Call for an independent office to monitor political campaigns, like the Irish referendum campaign and like the Australians.

I know, a bit bloody late. But better than nowt.

The system is set up in a particular way that does not favour critical thought and good skills for life

Who is responsible for that

Them? The elite? Where to start?

So does making about educated or stupid people help anyone?

An Irish journalist was on the TV at the weekend. He said in Ireland the approach to referendums is to just keep rerunning them till you get the desired outcome

Red, unless things have changed recently, we DO teach every day finance, very explicitly from primary school onwards.

The Financial Services Authority as was were very, very keen that the schools got a grip on financial literacy.

Although I admit I haven't followed the fate of this since the irruption of Gove.