Are leave voters happy with how this is playing out so far?

[Bearbehind]

Inpsired by Boris Johnson’s sister’s Tweet about people saying we are where we are but nobody having a clue where that is; which group of Leave voters are happy with how things are panning out?

From what I’ve seen the Leave voters seem to fall into these categories, in no particular order:-

1. People who heard nothing more than the word ‘immigration’ and voted based on all the borders being closed and every immigrant being deported on Friday
2. People who believed the nonsense touted by the Leave campaign about £350m for the NHS etc
3. People who voted as a protest to get their voice heard
4. People who believed leaving the EU was a good thing for their own spurious reasons (to get our own back for Eurovision, to get UK tomatoes, to not have to watch the Euros football, to stop the Germans stealing our sunbeds etc) but had no idea of the other consequences
5. People who truly believe we should not be governed by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels

Taking each group in turn, I can’t see how they have got what they want

1. Doesn’t even merit a response as it was such an appalling reason to vote
2. These have been proven to be lies as soon as the vote was over
3. This was a self defeating protest as it handed the control to the very people they were protesting against
4. Some of those people are now worried about job loses, the value of the pound, the drops in the stock market as they didn’t foresee that
5. There is no plan to get out of the EU- Boris seems to think we can have our cake and eat it but the EU aren’t having that

Is there another group of people who are genuinely happy with the way things are shaping up?

I really do wish I could live in the same la-la land of positivity, pixie dust and pollyanna-esque optimism that most leavers seem to be in at the moment. Must be nice.

What BacktoBasics2 said: It's only the Tuesday after the vote yet people seem to think a 40 year relationship with the EU can be sorted over a weekend. I don't know why people are panicking, it's been 4 days! When I left my marriage it took a year to sort everything out, it's the same with the EU, it's going to take time, planning and negotiation before things settle down. Why are people expecting it to happen in a week?

What would I have expected to happen?
Friday after the vote: shock, paralysis, reassuring sounds from the BoE, resignation of the Prime Minister (assuming he has no sense of duty or obligation. check)
Saturday, Sunday: Civil Servants and ministers running around behind the scenes putting together a plan, and doing some serious briefing of soon-to-be-ex Prime Minister. Said PM mostly is on the phone to EU and world leaders, apologising abjectly
Monday: the cabinet meeting from hell where the ministers go through the logic process that all the other remainers have been going through "can't we just ignore it?" "but what happens if we do?" "oh f**k". Swiftly followed by PM questions where well briefed soon-to-be-ex Prime Minister answers on script: "we will honour the referendum even though we hate the answer" and "I can't tell you what will happen because I'm buggering off to the after-dinner circuit"
Tuesday: PM goes to Brussels for the carpeting of his life.

And that's where we've got to. Seems pretty much what I'd expect. Real life doesn't work according to the 24 hour rolling news cycle.

What do I expect next?

Selection of new PM; I hope that there are just two candidates (BoJo, who I hope does not get it, and maybe May because I would really love to see two X chromosomes in charge of the next year or two, and those are probably the least bad ones realistically on offer) and that it goes swiftly to the Conservative party to vote on.

Behind the scenes: civil servants running around getting a schedule and versions of plans in place. I do not expect any of us to hear what they are doing until late September at the earliest (let the new PM work through them with their cabinet first)

Also mostly behind the scenes: task force of MPs joining in with the let's-make-a-plan thing. Not sure about having Letwin in charge of that (did I read that right), but there it is.

November or December: Article 50.

We all have to just slow down. The strength of emotion around the Brexit vote means that our expectations are unrealistic about how quickly it will be "resolved". I watched almost all of PMQs yesterday, and apart from the SNP MPs who I started fast forwarding (broken one-track record, sheesh), it was really helpful to see our elected representatives wrestling with similar questions to the ones posed all over the internet. And the message from the soon-to-be-ex Prime Minister was very clear, too. They (the Commons) have to respect the vote; there is a task force getting going on planning; and decisions on how actually to manage the exit are going to be down to the soon-to-be-ex Prime Minister's successor.

Have just found this. It's a kind of Brexit:what's next? It will not answer all questions, but might answer some.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7632/CBP-7632.pdf

How would the government departments affected know what to plan for when the leavers have promised everything to everyone? There is no clear leave agenda to follow.

Sign off Article 50 then what?

Our trade negotiators (I hear there a only a very, very few left in the civil service because we exported that bureaucracy to the EU) work with all the trade areas of the world until we get some trade agreements and in the meantime the EU kicks us in the balls every day of the week and twice on a Sunday so they look "strong".

That sounds like a good plan. Oh, hang on, Let's devolve Scotland in the mean time and mess with NI.

And finally, Panic, rejoin EEA, still pay loads, still get governed by the EU rules but can't influence them, still free movement of labour (people to you and me). And this is best case scenario.

However, I feel this referendum has done a great job in opening my eyes to the phenomenally stupid people I know. Which is handy.

No, I'm sorry, that is a bloody ludicrous scenario. And it also assumes that we get to dictate the terms of withdrawal from the EU. Does anyone seriously believe hat the EU are going to sit back and wait patiently while Britain navel gazes and wonders what the hell they're going to do next?

I don't it utterly

Oh, random extra words that make no sense.

Maybe Article 50 will get triggered faster, but I still doubt Cameron will do it. So it has to be after the new PM is in office, doesn't it?

He said about 17 times in PMQs whenever anyone asked him about specifics, "that will be for my successor to decide"; "that will be up to my successor".

My post probably wasn't very clear. I meant to say: I wouldn't expect us to have been told very much more than we have been told at this point, since the PM is still in Brussels being carpeted. It may be that he is forced or persuaded by the council into a particular course of action; in that case, he'd have been a fool to have told everyone his original plan in advance, wouldn't he?

BTW, I'm not a Cameron fan. I don't think he's acted in a manner compatible with leadership in the last few days. But I still don't think it's realistic or reasonable (given his resignation) to expect clear answers, a clear timetable and a plan of action right now. It'd be better all round if we had one, but he's slipperied his way out of being responsible for (ahem) running the country he is supposed to be running. So we WILL have a power vacuum and a direction vacuum for a bit while they sort themselves out, and there's no point whipping ourselves up into righteous indignation - sure, that's crap, but there's nothing we can do about it by getting cross, is there?

(and I was absolutely a fence-sitter in the referendum - I can see the merits of both sides)

I don't expect everything to happen in a week. What I did expect on Friday morning, was that one or more of the ringleaders of the Leave adventure, would step smartly forward and take charge, at least symbolically, of the Project Sunlit Pastures.

Now be honest, the Leave voters were actually expecting the same, weren't you? You wouldn't seriously have been impressed if Cameron had said, "Trust me guys, you know I am for Remaining, but I will now steer you towards Brexit with my hand over my eyes because I can't bear what I'm doing "... You'd have been furiously calling for him to step down because he can't be trusted with your project.

We all have to just slow down.

Yup, no rush, the employers and investors and financial markets will just chillax and wait for us to get our shit together because we're so important.

That's what I meant to say elements but your post is far more literate and coherent than mine.

For personal reasons I wasn't able to vote on Thursday - I was on the fence too but what I was expecting on Friday was a prime minister who announced that he would be going with Johnson and Gove into negotiations with the EU not throw his toys out of the pram

Sick of our 'leaders' resigning the second something doesn't go their way. At least Jeremy Corbyn seems to be bucking this trend

As soon as I heard the result I assumed Cameron would resign. It was talked about enough before - that everyone concerned had bet their careers on it. I can't see why anyone ever believed he wouldn't resign. He called a referendum to solve a short term local problem in the Tory party and his gamble failed. What else could he do but resign?

If they (Gove, BoJo, God forbid Farage) had, though, we'd all have screamed at them for overstepping their non-existent remit, though, wouldn't we? I hold no brief for any of them, but it'd be outrageous for any of them to say "alright everyone, we'll do it this way" when they aren't, and may never be, in a position to actually make it happen.

I know we all want to know. I want to know too!!! But I don't think we have a right to know exactly what will happen Right Now just because we want it so badly.

And I was expecting Cameron to swallow the bitter pill and get on with it, personally.

(please don't lay into me - I was and am a fence sitter, hoping to make the best of where we are, trying to see the merits of both sides)

I don't think you can expect anyone to stay in a position where they would have to work against their principles.

Free trade is linked directly to free movement of people because it's just that. It's the same thing.

Why is it fair that I could export goods but not my trade, if my trade depends on me actually being there?

No, I wouldn't have criticised them for overstepping as I consider it entirely their responsibility to have come up with a plan before they fought this campaign. How can you campaign for something when you have no idea how it will even work? How feckless and irresponsible for them to push this through without any practical consideration. That's why their promises have crumbled, they were based on thin air and cynical manipulation of what the voters wanted to hear and believed they were voting for.

Cameron wanted to remain. I will criticise him forever for calling the referendum in the first place, but digging us out of this hole isn't his responsibility. He told the public to stay. He warned them that leaving was a bad idea. Why should he implement something which he knows is a bad idea and will damage us all? Leave thought it was a good idea so it's their responsibility to demonstrate how and why this will be beneficial to any of us.

No, digging us out of this hole, should have been Cameron's responsibility because he should have had the gumption to realise that his arguments might not win. He should have pressed the Leave camp on what exactly they wanted to obtain. He could then have appointed someone on the Leave campaign to spearhead the negotiations.

"Yet, we are now repeatedly told, Leave trusted and expected the government and experts to devise and execute a plan to bring about that which they disagreed with shock?!"

Yes because the government are wrong when they disagree with leaving the UK, lying and fearmongering when they point out why it might be a bad idea...but it's ok to vote with no idea what you're voting for and complete blind trust that they'll then plan the exit and what comes after...

I would absolutely expect the Prime Minister of a country who calls a referendum to plan for both eventualities, yes. Could you imagine if that happened in a business scenario? Yep I proposed this motion on an incredibly important company matter but erm it hasn't gone how I wanted and actually I've only planned for the scenario I wanted?! Never mind resigning he should have been fired!

"Yep I proposed this motion on an incredibly important company matter"

But he didn't, he allowed it to be proposed under duress from the board, said he didn't agree with it and then waited for the actual proposal, which never came and for some reason the board voted for it anyway, so he resigned.

He should have pressed the Leave camp on what exactly they wanted to obtain.

Apart from leaving the EU, do Leave voters bloody well know what they want to obtain? There seems to be, how shall I put it, rather a spectrum of aims for New Britain. "Whaddawewant? Some Abstract Nouns! When do we want them? Oh, no rush."

He could then have appointed someone on the Leave campaign to spearhead the negotiations.

What about the self-appointed leaders of Leave ? What's suddenly wrong with them when they were good enough to lead the campaign? If not them, how about one of the many Blokes Down The Pub and People With Good Hearts who all knew better than Cameron? Where have they all gone, eh?

But the motion isn't clearly expressed and is marketing fluff based on unachievable aspiration which the Leave team are now rowing back from faster than the gold medal winning British ladies in the London Olympics.

I love the irony of voting Leave because of the rise of the far right in Europe...

How can Cameron make a plan when it's based on someone else's vision? The one whose vision it is makes the outline plan or you are guessing what's in their head surely?

Apparently the responsibility for planning wear would happen in the event of Brexit is the responsibility of everyone expect the Leave camp.

They're ideas people, don't you know. Visionaries. You can't expect them to have any actual plans.

*what