Europe's Leading Statesman Gives 'Em Hell

[claig]

Farage addresses the European Parliament after historic Brexit vote.

He says "most of you have never had a real job in your lives" and they all nod in agreement. Farage says "the little people defied the multinationals" and the multinationals sadly agree.

As Farage speaks to the world, puppets panic, stooges are stunned, elitists take a lie down, globalists are gobsmacked and the people party.

At the end of Farage's speech, the Establishment broadcast their pre-recorded booing tape in order to drown out the roar of defiance of the British people.

After Farage, Marine Le Pen speaks and says that the Brexit vote is the biggest event in Europe since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Come on Claig - you have Brexit.

So you've won. Well done.

What do you think Brexit will look like?
What will the differences be compared to what we have had?

claig nope I am not. Just interested on how I can qualify

If he is potential does that make him anti-establishment? How did Herman Cain make your list? Tell us who else is on it?

Whisky nah not the daily mail. Maybe David Ickes website?

claig
The fact that Trump and Farage have been called "racist" does not prove that they are not part of the Establishment. You would then have to prove that all those who have called them racist are part of the Establishment. But there may be many who call them racists simply because that is what they believe they are. Whatever they are, the style and content of their utterances tend to be those which inflame racial prejudice rather than the reverse.

About Brexit. Of course not all Brexiters are racists. I have a very good friend who voted Brexit, and she certainly isn't. I myself was quite tempted at one stage to do so. On the other hand, did that proportion of our population who are definitely racist, tend much more to vote for Brexit than Remain? - yes, I'm sure that is the case.

Again, another woolly phrase "the establishment" what about this man, is he the establishment too? www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2016/06/21/news/eu-law-expert-michael-dougan-s-video-on-brexit-risks-goes-viral-573261/

We don't know. But when we come back here in 2 years' time, I think we will all be doing well and we will all realise that they lied to us with Project Fear

And what if things haven't turned out ok? What if we have low growth / negative growth? Recession?

Still worth it?

'Ok, so you've got Brexit. What do you want a post Brexit Britain to look like?

Do you think the post Brexit Britain is going to be the one we eventually get?'

I'm not a politician so I have no say in it. I hope we get a more democratic government, that our political system is completely changed so that we are granted PR voting and that Corbyn forms a real Labour party free of the stooges who can all go off a form a new party.
For me it is all about democracy and people's representation because I trust the common sense of the people more than the political class.

I don't know what will happen now. They may trick us and we may stay in the EU, no one really knows what will happen next.

I'm not a politician so I have no say in it

So you've not got a clue? It is so much easier to criticise , isn't it?

But when you are asked for a plan and a vision. it falls apart.

What do you think Brexit will look like?
What will the differences be compared to what we have had?

You'll just get woolliness in response and if you challenge that you'll be told it's impossible to tell, in which case why take such a huge gamble with the country's future. It's just endless going round in circles while the UK goes down the shitter.

For me it is all about democracy and people's representation because I trust the common sense of the people more than the political class

Do you know what you are? You are all soundbites. No substance.

'If he is potential does that make him anti-establishment? How did Herman Cain make your list? '

Ben Carson supports Trump as does Herman Cain, who is a brilliant black politician. Ben Carson's team is working closely with Trump's team and Ben is likely to get a top job.

I don't keep a list of candidates by race, so I can't name them all. I don't vote on race, I vote on common sense.

vote on common sense

More soundbites.

How is Brexit common sense?

'On the other hand, did that proportion of our population who are definitely racist, tend much more to vote for Brexit than Remain? - yes, I'm sure that is the case.'

I agree, but that doesn't invalidate the vast majority who weren't racist and voted Brexit

claig
I think you are using the "Establishment" in the same way that lefties use the term "fascist".

When I was at university in the '60s and '70s, and opposing the influence of the various leftwing student groups, a friend of mine once asked one of the leftists what he meant by "fascism". The answer was "things you don't like".

I think your use of "Establishment" is exactly the same. Anything you don't like, or opposes views you do like, must, by definition, be "Establishment".

I think I have a rather more nuanced view of the situation.

Incidentally, if you don't think the Daily Mail isn't part of the Establishment - well, that rather proves my point.

claig

Do you think the vision Farage wants to see is the reality we'll end up getting?

'How is Brexit common sense?'

common sense is not a soundbite, it was one of UKIP's slogans and Trump's also and appeals to voters who think that the other parties lack common sense. It may not seem like common ense to everyone, but it does to those vters.

Brexit is common sense because it means control of our laws by our own elected lawmakers, it means we can hold them to account ad challenge them if they impleent an uncommon sense tax such as the "pasty tax" or toaster regulation that we think is crazy

claig I will be serious for a minute. I don't know how old you are but do you remember the NF in the 1970's and 1980's?

Hand to hand fighting between the NF and anti-fascists on the streets. Your road leads to that and much more. That's not about Brexit. It's about how an issue has been used by Mr F for his own aims. Even the EU has accused him of 'Nazi' propaganda. You are either naive or you agree with him

And still...and still...you will rant about establishment blah blah. Through a few facts in. Cut and paste some words. Show you have read some books. But. You. Just. Don't. Get.It. Keyboard warmongering is something.

But this is on the streets. It's in peoples workplaces. It's attacking their homes. I made a promise to myself and my mother after Jo Cox died to fight racism and bigotry in all it's forms and expose it for the dehumanising disgusting belief system it is. And I will.

'Do you think the vision Farage wants to see is the reality we'll end up getting?'

No, because as I have already said, the Esatblishment dislike Farage and will never let him get anywhere near power. In fact, Farage fears that we may be tricked and may not fully leave the EU

Brexit is common sense because it means control of our laws by our own elected lawmakers

You don't think that if we want to trade with the EU, then our goods and services will have to comply with EU standards?

Even toasters?

I think Farage will be bitterly disappointed when we do not in fact, flick V's at the EU Commission, tell Merkel to fuck herself and her excellent cars, boot out immigrants, build a wall and set about getting rid of things like maternity leave.

But such is life, someone must always be disappointed.

'But when you are asked for a plan and a vision. it falls apart.'

I don't care about "plans" because that is what the political class and civil service is paid to do and as Sir Gus O'Donnell said on the radio today, that is what the civil service are good at. They will sort it out.

All I care about is that we have got our sovereignty back and are therefore now heading in the right direction

Don't get wound up by Claig.

When we locked horns before she admitted to having made her decision prior to the referendum being announced and has not really read up on any of the counter arguments.

Her terms "the establishment and the elite" simply mean anyone who backed remain, she has no critical thinking faculties to wonder why the members of the establishment that backed leaving did so ( Murdoch was celebtrating it today, but he isn't establishment oh no). This was fully demonstrated when she cited Jacob Rees-Mogg as not being part of the establishment.

She also stuffs links into her arguments with no critical analysis of where they are from. She uses statistics and data when she thinks it suits her arguments ( going as far to cite the net migration statistic as EU migration) but has admitted that she doesn't pay attention when anyone else uses it, or attacks the sources (ah the irony). Essentially Claig is guilty of confirmation bias in all her arguments.

Essentially poor claig should have our sympathy, she's a conspiracy theorist with a good turn of phrase and a gift for hyperbole, but a conspiracy theorist none the less.

We never lost sovereignty 🙄

'Anything you don't like, or opposes views you do like, must, by definition, be "Establishment".'

No because the Establishment changes over time and some things it does I agree with. Trump will becoe the new establishment and I agree with a lot of his views. I disagree with the Establishment on the EU and PR voting, but when we leave and get PR voting then I will agree with the Establishment.

I only disagree with the Establishment on some issues because I think some things they do are not common sense

All I care about is that we have got our sovereignty back and are therefore now heading in the right direction

TBH - I'm not sure how much say the EU had over our lives. I do have issues with many things about the EU - but at the same time, I can see the massive economic benefits.

For me - it was 'the economy, stupid' - to use an old quote.

I hope what we gain is worth the price.